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Powerglide VS Torqueflite

Mike Gaines

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Anyone who knows please chime in.
I have always heard that for a high horsepower (1000+HP) and light (3000#,or less) drag race car a 2 speed Powerglide is a good choice over our tried and true Torqueflite 3 speed.
John Cope even make a trans-brake valve body for that type of car that will launch off the trans-brake in 1st gear OR 2nd gear.
Opinions please...thanks.
 
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Mike, talk to Ronnie 67 I believe he is putting the powerglide in his car. Might be able to help out. Just a thought.
 
yes, I know I mispelled Powerglide in the heading.
Click on "thread tools" and fix it if you want to. Easy.
I've always thought that the 2 speed glides were used for cost (cheaper) and simplicity. High powered race vehicles may only need 2 gears, especially for those who commonly run only HALF a race:poke: vs a FULL quarter mile :p
I'm a 3 pedal transmission guy, with 5 forward gears, so I'm not the best perspective on going to a 2 speed glide.
I guess it would come down to how wide the powerband is, and how many times can you be in the FATTEST parts of that powerband with a 2 speed vs a 3 speed, how much that matters performance wise, and the cost difference between the two.
Me? If I had an automatic transmission I would want to keep it Mopar, unless the Powerglide brought HUGE benefits to me, and then it would still be difficult, because MOPAR dang it!!:moparsmiley:
 
Raced a 68 Camaro with a 482/Powerglide/488/5000RPM stall in the 70's
and the biggest challenge was the power band. Seemed to have to trade off
for the wide gear ratios. Everyone can't shift like Ronny Sox!
 
Everyone can't shift like Ronny Sox!
I'm trying...
My best buddy giving me kudos for "actually starting to shift that car"

Me, putting that same buddy on the trailer after a 3-0 1/4 mile trouncing of his SRT8 Jeep (which is still bad *** for a Jeep!)
 
I ran a light car with a small block and a glide with a brake. I liked the way it worked, but converter choice is important. A munsinger replacement for the converter that I blew up netted two tenths plus. My engine could have been put together by a bright chimpanzee, so I have no reference for a big power engine.
As for opinion? I don't think your hemi car would be any faster with a glide, unless you have a bunch of trouble getting it off the line because of too much first gear.
It might be more consistent.
Would I make the investment if I owned your car?
No.
 
One of the forum members here did a glide swap in place of the 727. IIRC he either didn't like it, and may have swapped it back out.
 
I was always taught that the powerglide's main benefit for a racecar, was it had the least amount of parasitic drag compared to the other (old-school) autos. I've taken a friend's BB/powerglide Camaro down the 1/4 and, only having to shift once, was like driving a rocket powered go-kart..
 
I'm trying...
My best buddy giving me kudos for "actually starting to shift that car"

Me, putting that same buddy on the trailer after a 3-0 1/4 mile trouncing of his SRT8 Jeep (which is still bad *** for a Jeep!)

What are you running for a clutch and shifter? Sounds like you still have a little bit of lag between shifts. Helped a buddy run a 69 road runner years ago and it had a puck type clutch with a fairly light pressure plate and a Vertigate shifter. Had one guy come over to the our pit once and asked where did we get the 4 speed automatic :D
 
Here is the deal...

I have a 4.56 Dana 60 with 14x32x15W Hoosiers (105" rollout and 15" of tread) with 9-10lbs of air.
This is about my 1100HP 64 Belvedere Hemi car at 3000lbs.

When I launch the car the tach hits 7200 right at the 60' light beam and I shift it into 2nd gear, then between 1.3 and 1.4 seconds after the 1-2 shift the tach is hitting 7200 again and I make the 2-3 shift....so...I am in 3rd (high gear) in about 2.8 seconds after I leave the start line.
I had the shift light to come on at 6500 but that rpm came and went so fast the motor went to 7200 (in each gear) before I actually got the shift made.
All this well before the 330' beam...so I am in high gear for well over 1000' feet.
I have never had a race car that hit 7200 so quick in both 1st and 2nd gear so I don't know if this "normal" or if I should get a taller rear tire or switch from a 4.56 to a 4.30 gear or start out in 2nd gear.
Note: the slicks are NOT spinning as evidenced of my buddy doing a video of my launch and then replaying it in super slow motion.
Am I a candidate for a 2 speed powerglide OR my torqueflite with a John Cope trans-brake where you can utilize the trans-brake when doing a 2nd gear start ?
Input is always helpful.
thanks
 
This is about my 1100HP 64 Belvedere Hemi car at 3000lbs
Mike, I'm sorry if I cluttered up your thread. At least every post takes the thread back up top :)
What are you running for a clutch and shifter? Sounds like you still have a little bit of lag between shifts.
McLeod 3 finger pp, appx 2,900 pounds clamping pressure, w/their street strip disc. 18 spline 833 w/Passon slick shift sliders and synchros. Hurst Competition Plus shifter, bench seat Pistol Grip.
I had just started power shifting, gas pedal staying on the floor, but using the clutch. The rev limiter in the FBO ignition system was my required insurance policy.
Now that I have a Passon 855, which comes with a Hurst Competition Plus shifter, and a McLeod diaphragm style pp, still 2,900 pounds clamping pressure, I think it shifts as good or better.
Once I get my front suspension and brakes, and then the Caltracs rear suspension, I'm going to be at Test and Tune night a lot, and hopefully I'll have some new videos demonstrating faster shifts. Those 2 videos were the first mile of a 24 mile marathon. Not too bad in that perspective.
 
The quicker the car the earlier it shifts. I shift 1/2 right about the 60ft clocks. The main reason for a 2 speed is to calm down the launch. Bracket guys on lousy prep like them. My thought is 1000hp@3000lbs seems to be the trade off spot. That doesn't mean a glide will be quicker but about equal in ET. There are many cars running quicker than we do still using a 3 speed. I'd at least run the car wide open down the track before changing anything.
Doug
 
The main reason for a 2 speed is to calm down the launch.
Because of a numerically lower gear (closer to 1:1) than a 3 speed?
So I guess for Mike's question, would the 1st gear (ratio) in a glide carry him farther than the 1st and 2nd gears of a Torqueflight? Is that right Mike or anyone?
 
Bio, assuming a standard v8 planetary (v8s and straight six trans are geared different), the first gear in a glide is just slightly shorter than 2nd in a 727. He would find himself in high gear with the glide slightly sooner than the 2-3 shift in a 727.
Glides leave the starting line softer generally, so easier to hook up, one shift so more consistent, depending on driver, and less rotating weight, so less parasitic power loss.
The guys with REAL POWER use turbo 400s for strength, custom gearsets, and leave off a transbrake in second gear (2000+hp).
 
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I don't really think a glide is quicker, but Biomedtechguy hit the nail on the head. It's more econimical to run, and the endless research with them will always make them viable, and consistent, and live with the horsepower thrown at them due to that research and development.
 
the reason why you hear about these things has nothing to do with cost
a long time NHRA world record holder
was a 426 hemi mated to a 2 speed power glide.
today I'm sure that has changed a bunch..
 
Naturally, I always want to hear about the superiority of the Mopar product, no matter what it may be.
Yes, that aspect of what was my ENTIRE attitude when I was young and a teenager, "Mopar RULES! Everything else SUCKS!" still lingers on. To be clear, over the past several decades I have come to appreciate the best offerings of "the other companies" and me scorning another brand is rare, and certainly not just because it is, in fact, not MOPAR, and there are many classic muscle cars of the "others" that I admire, like my wife's 65 GTO.
BUT
I still prefer when a Mopar item, be it a Torqueflight, Dana 60, Hemi, or the carburetors and intake of the "Street Fighter" 6bbl, shaft mounted rocker arm design, etc are held up as shining, outstanding, or legendary examples of Chrysler engineering.
I know Torqueflight transmissions have a big problem with high powered engines and a stock part that absolutely has to be upgraded or the results can be devastating (I can't remember what that part is, 1st gear sprag or ?? I'm sure y'all know what I'm referring to).
I know the Turbohydramatic 400 is a beast, my best friend has a modded one behind his tuned up 2JZ turbo 6, but I honestly don't know how the inherent design of the Torqueflight compares to the competition.
I do know that "they" get the most R&D in the performance aftermarket, but I'm used to that.
 
The quicker the car the earlier it shifts. I shift 1/2 right about the 60ft clocks. The main reason for a 2 speed is to calm down the launch. Bracket guys on lousy prep like them. My thought is 1000hp@3000lbs seems to be the trade off spot. That doesn't mean a glide will be quicker but about equal in ET. There are many cars running quicker than we do still using a 3 speed. I'd at least run the car wide open down the track before changing anything.
Doug
Doug,
I appreciate your response above that says "the quicker the car the earlier it shifts". That makes sense to me and then you say you shift 1-2 at about the 60 foot mark, which is what mine does...but I am at 7200 at the 60 foot mark. When I get the shift made at 6500 (which is what I want to do) it will make the shift come a few feet sooner.
The next track date to run the car again is not until Feb 22/23 of this coming year.
It is a Test & Tune Weekend so I will be able to try many different combos...including opening the variable restrictor plates wide open to get full power from the motor (they are set at 50% airflow now), different launch rpm off the transbrake and probably 2nd gear launches (off the foot brake).
I am going to make license passes first to get my NHRA competition licenses so I will pass tech to go under 10.00.
Shown below is a picture of the restrictor plates mounted under the carbs and a picture of one of the plates closed down 50% as they are set up now under the 2 Dominators.

24.jpg 25.jpg
 
You know it cracks me up that people state that Torque Flites cant handle power. Have you ever put one behind any power? I can tell you that I know plenty that run over 900 with zero problems, including 2 of mine. Eventually you get to a point where stock parts are not sufficient. Now the issue becomes the availability of those parts. This is where PG, 400. 9"Ford start to shine. However you will find that factory TF or Dana parts are far stronger than factory PG or 9" stuff, which is pretty much useless. The factory 400 stuff is good. A PG has 1st gear ratio around 1.8. Let's do the math PG 1.80 x 4.30=7.74 , 727 2.45 × 3.23 =7.91 As you can see a PG offers less starting line ratio than a 727 with a 3.23 gear. PG, 400, 9" all have their place. But after 625 passes on my stuff I know what lives.
Doug
 
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