Rebuilding my 440

[myfyn69]

I'm the proud owner of a 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner clone that I have had since the early 90's the motor had a serious run in with about 3 gallons of water sitting inside the engine over the last winter. I loaned out a carb and thought i had sealed it off good, well I didn't so needless to say it does not run very well anymore. so I'm looking at getting the cost and parts list ready. She is a street/strip car. I want her to be able drive the 200 miles to Roseburg for a car show that we go to every year. but other then that she will be going to the strip. The motor right now has flat top pistons stock crank and heads, mallory 6a style box, msd coil, Mopar electronic distributor, Wiend tunnel ram with Edelbrock 1406 and 1407 carbs. Mopar 509 purple cam, clots double roller timing chain, big shot Nitrous up to 400 shot. we have a 200 shot with a Jacobs electronics Nitrous controller in it now. headman headers, 3" exhaust with a h pipe back to 40 series flow masters. 3000 stall converter 727 stock transmission, with 323 sure grip rearend. I have searched summit and different sites for kits but don't really understand what i should go for. as far as doing the work that's not problem but not really good at setting up the comb stuff, I'm fine with a bigger cam because now shes not going to be a daily driver, and was told I should get better rocker arms so I have looked at Harland Sharp S70015K - Harland Sharp Shaft Mount Roller Rockers and was told by some other Mopar guys these are worth the money, but then I'm lost as to either go the keith black route with pistons and h beam rods and new crank or just buy all stock replacement stuff as this motor ran 13's without the Nitrous before the water problem, any info would be great I will be stock piling info and parts till well after tax season before removing the engine and transmission. let me know if you need anymore info on the setup I tried to list what I have read to be of importance. also we also run 92 in the car unless it's going to the racetrack then it gets 110. the only other plan that may happen is I also have a hx-40 turbo from a dodge ram that might find its way onto the car though don't want that into the equation just in case it does not happen. I can just keep the boost low if I decide to install it. thanks James B

 

[mopar367]

Buy Kb pistons, and h- beams. Is your crank forged? That sounds like a lot of NOS for stock parts. Since you are running higher Octane fuel and a big cam like that, Anywhere around 10-1 compression should be good.

 

[myfyn69]

the crank is believed to be stock. the motor was purchased from a wrecking yard out of a chevy race truck. one brother had the motor and transmission and one had a truck so they combined them. the bottom end has never been apart. I've been doing some thinking and I think I want to figure out what it will take to make the car run 10's and pull the front end off the ground. not sure if it sounds crazy but if my 10,000 lb dodge ram can run 12's with a computer tuner I should be able to get my 6000 lb car to do 10's. prefer to not have to use the nitrous if i do not need to. I've looked into the pistons you said but only see cast or hyper and from what I read the hyper ones are not good for nitrous? any thoughts on this? I figure if the motor is coming out of the car I might as well make it the best I can.

 

[mopar367]

Well 6000 lbs for a vehicle is pretty heavy. What is it? my 87 ram with a 440 sits around 4000 lbs. If you want a stout engine to run fast with out nos Ill give you a combo I suggest. Just don't run a huge cam. With a heavy weight vehicle like that. I suggest a medium range cam. I am running the mopar .455 intake.455 exhaust lift cam. It is a good cam for everyday driving and, it is pretty hot compared to stock. Get a forged crank and some good forged pistons.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Pro-T...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5c95f844&vxp=mtr
These are TRW forged pistons similar to 6 pack design, they will get you around 9.7-10.0 to 1 compression. Use a thin steel head gasket. Use stock reconditioned rods or aftermarket rods, its up to you. 906 heads will do the job, but a set of closed chamber 915 or edelbrock aluminum will be even better. It depends on your budget. With my setup I run an old school torker intake. I love the look of them and they make the most torque of all intakes. They dyno tested them from mopar muscle magazine. Anyways thats my 2 cents. I am gonna build another 440 this summer and I'm gonna run same setup with trw 7025P .030 OVER PISTONS forged bottom end.

 

[67 B-body]

I'm not aware of ANY B-Body that weighs 6,000 lbs.
Forged pistons should always be used when considering a purpose built NOS engine. The piston rings should be a high quality item as well, and file fit. Hasting makes a file fit racing ring set and provides different end gap specs for NOS applications as well as turbo, supercharged, and standard setups. A good connecting rod "H-Beam", Forged steel crankshaft, SFI rated harmonic balancer, SFI rated flex plate, and the whole assy balanced will give you a sound bottom end! The camshaft selection should be planned out as well in regards to turbo, or non-turbo applications.... What works for one may not work for the other! This holds true for a nitrous engine as well..... There are purpose designed camshafts for nitrous engines as well..
Block preparation is very important too..... a deck surfacing to square up the block and a line hone of the mains is always a good idea.
You might want to consider installing a main stud girdle if you plan on squeezing the nitrous button heavily.
I built my engine with the intentions of future nitrous use, and did all of the mentioned items. I however did not install a nitrous specific camshaft, because I was not starting out with nitrous. I recommend a good set of heads for any serious engine build! I use the Victor style head and Victor intake to get the job done. If you plan on NSS racing, you should plan the dual quad intake into your build.... They flow differently than a single plane single 4bbl intake!
There is a lot to consider when putting together an effective package!

 

[cngordon]

Unlikely to be 6000 lbs. Probably more in the neighbourhood of 3700 to 4000 lbs.

To lift the front wheels a bit, would a 440/512 stroker be appropriate ?

 

[67 B-body]

Lifting the front wheels takes more than engine...... Some cars have less horsepower and good suspension that can lift the front wheels and carry them well off the line, and other cars have major power that never get the front end up at all...... Weight transfer is key to traction and handled in many different ways. Some have great luck with CalTracs, others use 4 links and coil overs, Some with old school S/S springs and pinion snubber. I just made a set of CalTracs for my car, but I know it's nothing like I need it to be for best performance... I think coil overs are about the best arrangement myself....

 

[myfyn69]

I know it's not really 6000 lbs but when your pushing the thing around by hand it sure feels that way. These are all great suggestions. I guess I just get the bug in me when I watch shows like Pinks All Out, and Pass Time, and see Mopars like mine pulling the front wheels up carrying along and slowly glide down and run a 10,11,or 12 second pass.

Mopar367 is there a reason that you suggest a forged crank over the stock crank that many say they use here?

Reading about CalTracs and looking at pictures they seem to be an adjustable ladder bar that mounts under the spring instead of welded to the axle, does that sound correct? I'm wondering if one could use or build a adjustable ladder bar set up? Good thing I started to look into this before just buying what sounds good. Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone.

One quick thing to add, not sure if it matters, but it has a Carter hi-pro fuel pump and 1/2" line from the tank to the Holly fuel pressure regulator then splits down to 3/8" to feed the Edelbrock carburetors and Weiand tunnel ram.

 

[mopar367]

I suggested a forged crank because most people only feel comfortable to 500 ish hp with cast iron. Early big blocks came stock with forged, just find one of them. I scored one when I did my build. It was 100$ and only needed a polish. 3/8 fuel line should be enough, I'm not sure about for 2 carbs though. If you run into fuel problems I say change that first.

 

[67 B-body]

I know it's not really 6000 lbs but when your pushing the thing around by hand it sure feels that way. These are all great suggestions. I guess I just get the bug in me when I watch shows like Pinks All Out, and Pass Time, and see Mopars like mine pulling the front wheels up carrying along and slowly glide down and run a 10,11,or 12 second pass.

Mopar367 is there a reason that you suggest a forged crank over the stock crank that many say they use here?

Reading about CalTracs and looking at pictures they seem to be an adjustable ladder bar that mounts under the spring instead of welded to the axle, does that sound correct? I'm wondering if one could use or build a adjustable ladder bar set up? Good thing I started to look into this before just buying what sounds good. Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone.

One quick thing to add, not sure if it matters, but it has a Carter hi-pro fuel pump and 1/2" line from the tank to the Holly fuel pressure regulator then splits down to 3/8" to feed the Edelbrock carburetors and Weiand tunnel ram.

CalTracs are a little different than adjustable ladder bars.
If you look closely to a set installed, you'll notice that they have a cantilever effect pushing back down on the top of the leaf as it try's to "reverse" arch, or in other words "wrap up" the axle.
Pretty damn cleaver actually!

 

[myfyn69]

Makes sense on the crank. I'll do some research to see what early years came with those cranks and maybe see if they have a stamp on the crank itself to tell if the one in mine is from the early years. I won't know until I tear the motor apart to know what's inside it already. these combos really make over 500 hp wow that sounds wicked!!!! You say the tunnel ram is too much for a mild big block? 500 hp is considered mild? in your opinion where does the engine have to be to run one? I could always put smaller carburetors on it. the hole is already cut in the hood and the ram has been installed and driven daily for a while with not much issues. I think i need to get some pictures up here I'll play around and figure out how to upload some to my profile.

The cal-tracks sure do look good installed. lots of planning seams to go into building these cars when you go and use your head to build it. unlike back in the high school days of oooo that looks cool lets try it. case in point the wheel wells that were pushed out with a scissor jack and air hammer instead of doing tubs.

 

[Cranky]

Going 10's isn't too hard these days but you should concentrate on doing that instead of showing off....unless that's what you want to do. Putting the wheels into the air is wasted motion, plain and simple but a 10 second car can and will bring the front wheels up just a little and that's ok. How high do you want to go? Big wheel stands usually means a slower ET. And what kind of a truck do you have that weighs 10,000 lbs?? Even a dually extended cab diesel doesn't weigh that much. 10,000 GVW maybe....? And I ran a 'mild' 440 with a tunnel ram that ran 10.60's and it worked well.

 

[myfyn69]

what you say makes total sense. I've always personally wanted a car that can lift both tires off the ground for that picture perfect moment. it doesn't have to do it every time. once or twice would be enough to say to myself yes i built that yes it can do a wheel stand. maybe that's the use of the Nitrous to get it there? I am more for the personal feelings rather then showing off.
I just figure Iv'e had the car for 15+ years and for the last 3 or 4 shes been sitting to the side and I wan't to pull it back out.
I'm compiling a list of parts that I think might fit the part and when I get it all on there I'll post what I'm thinking and see if it looks right.

The truck in question is a early 2004 dodge ram cummins turbo diesel quad cab, lifted on 37's the weight is gvw approximation. the door says front 7900 rear 4200 or something close to that. I know it's not actual but hooked to my 2500 lb trailer we tip the scales at 12k unloaded. she's a work horse that has pulled anything I put behind her.

 

[moparmarks]

440 1966-mid 73 had forged steel cranks and are internally balanced. Later cast cranks are externally balanced. I've seen cast cranks handle around 600HP no problem.

 

[shag766]

Going 10's isn't too hard these days but you should concentrate on doing that instead of showing off....unless that's what you want to do. Putting the wheels into the air is wasted motion, plain and simple but a 10 second car can and will bring the front wheels up just a little and that's ok. How high do you want to go? Big wheel stands usually means a slower ET. And what kind of a truck do you have that weighs 10,000 lbs?? Even a dually extended cab diesel doesn't weigh that much. 10,000 GVW maybe....? And I ran a 'mild' 440 with a tunnel ram that ran 10.60's and it worked well.

my 2000 f350, crew cab dually, short box, diesel, 4X4, half full of fuel. 8300 and change lbs.

 

[myfyn69]

Parts that I have come up with are all on the Summit website, although I may source them locally when the time comes to actually buy them. Here is the list: Eagle balanced rotating kit which includes the 4340 crank, H beam rods, full set of forged domed pistons with reliefs (part number ESP-B21201055); Arp head studs (part number ARP-145-4206); Connecting Rod Bolts, Pro Series Wave-Loc, 8740 Chromoly, Chrysler, 383, 400, 413, 426, 440, V8, Set of 16 (part number ARP-245-6402); comp cams Camshaft, 3-Bolt, Mechanical Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 302/311, Lift .590/.609, (part numberCCA-23-633-5); or comp cams Camshaft, 3-Bolt, Mechanical Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 323/323, Lift .690/.690 (part numberCCA-23-770-9); Harland Sharp Rocker Arms, Shaft Mount, 1.6 Ratio, Aluminum, Roller Rockers, Chrysler, Big Block, B/RB (part numberCSP-S70016K); Intake Manifold Gasket Set, `RB` Race Eng (part numberDCC-4452105); Voltage Regulator, 13.5 V Constant Output, Race Only, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, Each (part numberDCC-3690732);Tire, g-Force T/A Drag, P 225 /50R15, Radial, 1,301 lbs. Maximum Load, Blackwall, Each (part number BFG-49256); Gaskets, Full Set, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, 383, 440, Set (part number : MRG-5994). Looking at the heads that are available it seams that I could just tear mine apart and either port and polish them myself or have them done for less then buying a set. I have really no way to see what this combo will create but by going with what everyone on here says this should be a pretty good combo. These parts all depend on what's actually inside my block when she comes apart. Thanks for all the feedback on the parts and helping a newbie find his way with his car.