Schwartz Performance Chassis vs New 2020 Challenger SRT

[Michael_]

Out of interest.
Schwartz Performance sells those full frame systems for old muscle cars.
Does anybody have any expierence with them?

Lets compare a 1970 challenger with a full decked out schwartz performance chassis with a new 2020 challenger SRT handling wise.
As its a restomod anyway lets say both got the same engines.

Would the Schwartz handle:

A: Worse
B: Equally
C: Better (If so how much better, which new car would you say is it comparable to?)

Just out of interest.
From time to time i think of building a restomod. This looks very good. Even IRS available.

 

[493 Mike]

Out of interest.
Schwartz Performance sells those full frame systems for old muscle cars.
Does anybody have any expierence with them?

Lets compare a 1970 challenger with a full decked out schwartz performance chassis with a new 2020 challenger SRT handling wise.
As its a restomod anyway lets say both got the same engines.

Would the Schwartz handle:

A: Worse
B: Equally
C: Better (If so how much better, which new car would you say is it comparable to?) YES! A lot less weight. I don't know much about new cars so I can't say.
Mike

Just out of interest.
From time to time i think of building a restomod. This looks very good. Even IRS available.

 

[biomedtechguy]

My thoughts first go to weight.
New cars are pigs...
I'd like to see 2 fully modernized old school Mopars done: Daytona/Superbird and
T/A Challenger/AAR Cuda

 

[Michael_]

So you think the schwartz performance chassis can keep up with or is even better than
that relatively modern and modified mercedes benz platform the new challenger is based on handling wise?
Well than of course i think you're right and the old challenger would benefit much from less weight thus outrunning the new one.

I've already driven a new SRT and Hellcat and was pretty impressed. (but was mainly looking at other things than handling back than)
Never driven a Schwartz Performance or comparable Restomod though.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I just priced one out...
About the same as a high end 700+ HP engine build, aftermarket block. There were more $$ options to choose too...
$18+K

 

[Ironbuilt]

I just priced one out...
About the same as a high end 700+ HP engine build, aftermarket block. There were more $$ options to choose too...
$18+K

Was that $18,000 installed? That doesn't look like an install for a backyard novice. I've installed subframe connectors on a Challenger, that's as far as I would venture in my home shop.

 

[biomedtechguy]

https://www.schwartzperformance.com/chassis/1968-1970-b-body-coronet-road-runner-charger-chassis/

Was that $18,000 installed?

NO...
"Shipping: For an assembled frame, we use an enclosed car transporter. If you don't want the frame assembled, we'll ship it truck freight in a crate."
BUT...
Installation is simple.

• You are not required to cut out your entire floor-pan. A small notch is required in the rear seat floorpan which does not affect the driver or driver's seat.
• The only required cutting is of minor brackets, front frame-rails and front shock towers—creating a "clean" engine bay
• The only required welding is of four mounting plates onto the original torsion bar cross-member
• The only required drilling is of two bolt-holes in the rear frame rails

 

[biomedtechguy]

Over the last few days, the critical structural importance of the torsion bar crossmember has really been prominent in a couple of articles I've read.
I'm glad my Passon a855 doesn't require me to cut it out.

 

[Ironbuilt]

https://www.schwartzperformance.com/chassis/1968-1970-b-body-coronet-road-runner-charger-chassis/

NO...
"Shipping: For an assembled frame, we use an enclosed car transporter. If you don't want the frame assembled, we'll ship it truck freight in a crate."
BUT...
Installation is simple.

• You are not required to cut out your entire floor-pan. A small notch is required in the rear seat floorpan which does not affect the driver or driver's seat.
• The only required cutting is of minor brackets, front frame-rails and front shock towers—creating a "clean" engine bay
• The only required welding is of four mounting plates onto the original torsion bar cross-member
• The only required drilling is of two bolt-holes in the rear frame rails

So am I reading this correctly; the only thing holding your body to this chassis is four mounting plates at the cross member and two bolts in the rear frame rails. Something tells me that it is A LOT more complicated than that.

 

[Ironbuilt]

Over the last few days, the critical structural importance of the torsion bar crossmember has really been prominent in a couple of articles I've read.
I'm glad my Passon a855 doesn't require me to cut it out.

I hope that you're not cutting up your RR to that extent.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I hope that you're not cutting up your RR to that extent.

That's my point! I haven't cut ANYTHING in my Roadrunner, at all. (I may do mini tubs, later...maybe)

I'm glad my Passon a855 doesn't require me to cut it out.

 

[72dodge72]

Best bet is to sit down and really understand your goals for the build -

Street driven only, autocross, or more serious competition? How much do you value comfort - NVH and modern technology - as good as the resto mods can be, the new cars will be quieter and have more creature comforts. What's your budget? Be realistic about your skills and determine how much you can or want to build yourself vs farming out. The schwartz chassis is a fantastic base, but it is not a bolt in and does require modifications to the body - especially to the inner fender well areas.

Once you've thought those items out a bit more - give Schwartz a call and they'll give you a realistic view of what to expect and what the costs will be.

I went through these same questions last year - building a 72 hellcat charger now with simpler to install RMS front and rear coil overs and rack and pinion - there's enough aftermarket support where this is a relatively easy do it yourself project with decent handling and great power - not expecting late model performance, but should be decent (and hopefully on the road before the hot rod power tour in August).

Like you, my ultimate goal is late model performance so I recently purchased an unfinished project - a70 challenger that has a full custom tube chassis with an independent rear that I'll be building next year - much more involved... but should have that sought after late model handling and ride when complete - bottom line - lot's of choices these days - great time to be a Mopar fan - old or new.

 

[Jeff Brundage]

Out of interest.
Schwartz Performance sells those full frame systems for old muscle cars.
Does anybody have any expierence with them?

Lets compare a 1970 challenger with a full decked out schwartz performance chassis with a new 2020 challenger SRT handling wise.
As its a restomod anyway lets say both got the same engines.

Would the Schwartz handle:

A: Worse
B: Equally
C: Better (If so how much better, which new car would you say is it comparable to?)

Just out of interest.
From time to time i think of building a restomod. This looks very good. Even IRS available.

Save yourself a bunch of money and time, buy my car. All new modern underneath and classic mopar on the outside!

 

[moparedtn]

Dang, some of y'all like spending other people's money.

 

[biomedtechguy]

RMS or Gerst both offer rack and pinion steering and coilover conversion front suspension systems, and 4 link rear suspension. U.S. Car Tools has subframe connectors and other chassis stiffening components. Shock technology is quite advanced. There's a LOT that can be done to the FACTORY frame that dramatically improves handling, adjustability, performance and ride.
With my 70 Roadrunner, I'm focused on "boulevard bruiser" and test and tune night/grudge racing. I want suspension tunability for traction at the launch and straight line performance. Will the Borgeson power steering box improve my steering? Probably, from those who have made the switch. What about the QA1 K-member and complete front suspension, with the SPC UCAs being the only non-QA1 component? That will improve steering, handling, and give me the straight line/launch tunability (disconnecting the front sway bar so the front suspension can lift) along with the double adjustable Viking shocks. I'm adding subframe connectors too, adding another level of handling improvement, but still focused on drag racing and cruising. The torsion bars let me adjust the static height of the front relative to the back, and I just recently read that the torsion bars also lend to chassis stiffness and support. The QA1 K-member and front suspension with the SPC UCAs all together cost around $1,750 on sale, free shipping. As appealing as rack and pinion steering was, that would have been a $6,000 outlay to have a compatible front suspension.
BUT IF...
I had an AAR Cuda or T/A Challenger clone, I would want the PREMIUM handling/cornering solution. At that point either a rolling chassis like we've been discussing, WITH the independent rear suspension axle vs solid axle would be ideal! Possibly even for a Daytona or Superbird clone, where top speed over long distances would be my goal, and the suspension performance can mean the difference between life and a firey inferno.

 

[Dennis H]

Good read. 2020 Redeye is amazing handler for 4400 pounds. Yet to complain. Most rigid I’ve ever driven. Electric power steering seems to have been sorted.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Good read. 2020 Redeye is amazing handler for 4400 pounds. Yet to complain. Most rigid I’ve ever driven. Electric power steering seems to have been sorted.

And it's a FANTASTIC car (and I'm a little jealous )
Now, think about what EVERYTHING it is and does would be if it was 600-800 pounds lighter!

 

[Kern Dog]

I like having the ability to choose the level of steering effort.

 

[4406bbl]

I don't think that setup would stay in the same zip code as a 2020 hellcat with active suspension, I bet even a $40k scatpack 1320 would mop it up.

 

[Darius]

I cannot answer about the Schwartz framework but I will share a response to a PM I had about my RMS( AlterKation) front and 4 link rear. If you are that interested you can read my build thread called "B Body Stiffening" in this forum. Here was my reply;
I LOVE this ride! I have really put it to the test. We drive about 400 miles to the Spring Fling in LA from No Calif. We have an awesome route through the central valley OFF of I-5 that winds and twists for about 100 miles with some awesome straight sections. This is through some hilly areas. Then it flattens out and straight as an arrow for another 100 miles. 100mph+ for miles on end. Then we end up at Willow Springs race track, a 2 1/2 mile road course that is on a hillside. Most fun I have ever had driving a car. The car sticks to the track like glue! I have done this twice and was scheduled this spring until covid put the screws to that.
Bottom line is I have just over 15,000 miles on the car . The only thing I have a complain about is the upper shock mount on the 4-link rear suspension is junk. Broke one off completely and the other was 3/4 of the way there. That bolt is not even case hardened. We fabbed up a better bracket to relieve some stress and modified some case hardened bolts to work correctly. THAT is the ONLY problem I have had with the suspension in all of those miles and it just happened last time I drove it. The brakes are fantastic. I have had ZERO issues with the engine or transmission. Just turned out unbelievably awesome in every way.

So, I drive it own the street, race 1/4 mile AND drive road course with it. I average 18mpg but I am only running a 5.7 5 speed Nag1 trans with a 2:76 rear gear in an 8 3/4 rear end.