Smashed my oil pan again...torsion bar recommendation needed.

[Brewzer67]

Apparently my torsion bars are just getting a little too old for the task at hand of holding up the front end
I currently have an old set of factory 318 bars (despite running a 526" RB) that are getting pretty tired. I have cranked them up a few times over the last 15 years but they start to sink again after a while so it's time to get something a little more in line with the times and the other front end changes I have made through the years. All front end components have been replaced (polygraphite bushings, all new tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.). I switched to SSBC disks and have also added a fast ratio Flaming River steering box (no sway bar though). Since the torsion bars are a little weak, I occasionally hit the pan going over more "aggressive" railroad tracks, etc. I am thinking about going to a .0904 bar or bigger and am wondering if folks could chime in on what is working for them. I won't mind a little firmer but don't want to lose fillings. I do want it to keep the pan off the ground when I eventually (hopefully) lift the front tires on launch. I do run skinnies up front but may go back to something a little wider at some point but it will never be a corner burner.

Manufacturer and size recommendations appreciated.

 

[moparnation74]

ouch thats like setting a bowling ball on an M&M.....

http://www.hotchkis.net/product/41-in-1-03-in-forged-torsion-bars-for-mopar-b-and-e-body-models/

 

[69 GTX]

Some adjustable shocks & hemi skid plate may help some too.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I'm sure you don't want to hear this... but have you considered adding a skid plate (6-pack/Hemi)? I suggest this because you sound like you street drive the car. IF you're running one of those really deep sump 9 qt. Moroso (or other) pans, then the stock-style skid plate won't cover it.

Besides that, I'd suggest just a stock-style big block torsion bar. My 2-cents.

 

[PST]

I would recommend our PST's 1.03 torsion bars. They are $239 with free shipping within the USA 48 and being a member of the forum also makes you eligible for the FBBO discount of 10% off. So the cost would be $215.

We also offer torsion bar kits. The master kit is the bars, boots and clips. The deluxe kit includes whats in the master kit plus torsion bars adjusters.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Here is a link:

http://p-s-t.com/i-23157797-1-03-to...ml#!year=1967||make=PLYMOUTH||model=SATELLITE

Thanks
James

 

[Kern Dog]

These cars are sadly UNDERsprung for street use. Even a stock OEM .90 torsion bar is far below the rate that newer cars have today. I ran 1.0 bars in my 70 Charger for many years but now have 1.15s. The belief that the ride is bone jarring or too stiff is partially related to the shocks and height of the sidewalls of the tires. My car rides about as firm as our 2015 Challenger R/T. I have Bilstein shocks, big torsion bars and sway bars and my car rides great. It never wallows over bumps, it soaks up dips and bumps like a newer car too.
I got mine through Bergman Auto Craft. They had 1.06, 1.12 and 1.15 bars. Firm Feel also has a variety. PST sells a 1.03 bar.

 

[Brewzer67]

I'm sure you don't want to hear this... but have you considered adding a skid plate (6-pack/Hemi)? I suggest this because you sound like you street drive the car. IF you're running one of those really deep sump 9 qt. Moroso (or other) pans, then the stock-style skid plate won't cover it.

Besides that, I'd suggest just a stock-style big block torsion bar. My 2-cents.

I am running the 7qt. low profile Milodon pan but am definitely going to look into the skid plate since this isn't the first time I dinged the pan. I do drive it on the street (3-4k miles a year) so this will be some cheap insurance. It's weird that I hit the once in 30 years and have now dinged it twice in less than 3 months.

 

[funknut]

I agree with everyone above that said a 1.0 or larger torsion bar is the way to go. I have the Hotchkis 1.03 bars on a big block car and it doesn't feel harsh at all. I also have the QA1 K-frame and sway bar.

FWIW, there are many threads on reworking/updating the stock-style suspension and a number of those threads recommend upgrading to a larger sway bar when you upgrade the torsion bars.

 

[Brewzer67]

These cars are sadly UNDERsprung for street use. Even a stock OEM .90 torsion bar is far below the rate that newer cars have today. I ran 1.0 bars in my 70 Charger for many years but now have 1.15s. The belief that the ride is bone jarring or too stiff is partially related to the shocks and height of the sidewalls of the tires. My car rides about as firm as our 2015 Challenger R/T. I have Bilstein shocks, big torsion bars and sway bars and my car rides great. It never wallows over bumps, it soaks up dips and bumps like a newer car too.
I got mine through Bergman Auto Craft. They had 1.06, 1.12 and 1.15 bars. Firm Feel also has a variety. PST sells a 1.03 bar.

Thanks for the reply. Do you know what spring rates are for those from Bergman? I would assume two bars that are .096 from two different manufacturers may not be the same spring rate. Or am I overthinking this?

 

[Brewzer67]

I agree with everyone above that said a 1.0 or larger torsion bar is the way to go. I have the Hotchkis 1.03 bars on a big block car and it doesn't feel harsh at all. I also have the QA1 K-frame and sway bar.

FWIW, there are many threads on reworking/updating the stock-style suspension and a number of those threads recommend upgrading to a larger sway bar when you upgrade the torsion bars.

Thanks. It definitely sounds like bigger than 1.0 bars are in my future. As the car sits right now it doesn't have a sway bar as that was always a no no from a dragstrip perspective. I think tire and shock technology improvements have made that less impactful than it used to be so I may look into adding one when I make this change. Can anyone that races their car weigh in on that part?

 

[Kern Dog]

The sway bar was rumored to hinder suspension extension on drag launches, the thinking was that the front wheels did not drop fast enough to allow the front to rise for better weight transfer. My thought is that if you have enough traction to "grip and rip", why alter the front suspension in a way that compromises handling?
If you need a faster weight transfer, you can still run a front sway bar and disconnect one side at the strip. This will allow the suspension to travel as if there is no bar at all.
Since you are used to having small torsion bars and no sway bar, it might be smart to go moderate with an upgrade.I'd suggest the PST 1.03 Torsion bars at a minimum and maybe a stock front sway bar with new urethane bushings. This will provide a noticeable improvement. Maybe later you may want to go bigger.
Me? I went with the biggest I could find because I like curves and corners more than drag racing.
Good luck.

 

[moparcrazy]

Firm Feel ! the mopar only Guys !!
http://www.firmfeel.com/

 

[Mike67]

What oil pan are you using? I know from your post that's not the underlying issue..
The road race 7qt from Milodon is about 1/2" shorter than the 7qt Moroso street pan...Just a thought

 

[Brewzer67]

What oil pan are you using? I know from your post that's not the underlying issue..
The road race 7qt from Milodon is about 1/2" shorter than the 7qt Moroso street pan...Just a thought

I am using the Milodon low profile pan. It is the 30390 with the triangulated sump. Generally it hadn't been an issue in the past so I think the Tbars are just good and tired. I didn't want to pull the pickup so I just swapped the pan out and will weld up the old one and put a reinforcing plate in it and save it for a spare. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Tex013]

I have used the Milodon road race pan on my 68 for several years . Only hangs about 1/2"below k frame , have about 5-6"clearance to road . Don't think I could hit most anything without hitting k or something else as well . I run small block bars , have a big block and front is down to get travel to suit caltracs

Tex

 

[Kern Dog]

Are the roads better down under than they are here? Up here, the road quality has suffered because politicians would rather give our tax money to fund 20 different languages in schools, free stuff for the lazy and entitled, sanctuary city legal defense funds, etc.

 

[Brewzer67]

Are the roads better down under than they are here? Up here, the road quality has suffered because politicians would rather give our tax money to fund 20 different languages in schools, free stuff for the lazy and entitled, sanctuary city legal defense funds, etc.

They could definitely be better! I tend to avoid the stretches of road that I know need attention. It helps that I live out in the 'burbs so things aren't as bad as most of Milwaukee.

 

[451Mopar]

I have the old Mopar 0.960" bars. That was the largest size where they still had the right/left indexing. On the '71 Charger with KYB gas shocks and large aftermarket sway bar, the ride is firm, much like a newer non-performance car. The same bars on my '69 Coronet Convertible with the RCD Bilsten shocks, and stock sway bar, the ride is not as firm as the Chargers, a bit on the soft side, but that is fine for the convertible. I think the main difference is the shocks?

 

[Brewzer67]

I have the old Mopar 0.960" bars. That was the largest size where they still had the right/left indexing. On the '71 Charger with KYB gas shocks and large aftermarket sway bar, the ride is firm, much like a newer non-performance car. The same bars on my '69 Coronet Convertible with the RCD Bilsten shocks, and stock sway bar, the ride is not as firm as the Chargers, a bit on the soft side, but that is fine for the convertible. I think the main difference is the shocks?

I am probably going to go with the firm feel or PST 1.03 bars. I checked on the size of the current bars and they are .889 (including several layers of paint). I might go one size bigger but would like to take a test spin with someone first. Either way, I have so many balls in the air right now project-wise this will have to wait until next year.

 

[Kern Dog]

On the '71 Charger with KYB gas shocks and large aftermarket sway bar, the ride is firm. I think the main difference is the shocks?

KYBs are a "digressive" design. This means that they are firm at the first few inches of suspension travel, then as the suspension travels further, they loosen up and get softer. EXACTLY backwards of what a good shock should do. THe Bilsteins are softer during short suspension movement, allowing a better ride. As the suspension travels further, they tighten up. This is how springs work so they are a better match for the natural action of the suspension.