Snap ring green bearings required for Wilwood rear axle disc brakes...

[biomedtechguy]

I'm surprised that when I had my 3.54 Dana 60 gears swapped to 4.10s when the Passon Performance a855 5 speed went in, that I didn't get green bearings then...I definitely had the bearings replaced, but it's been a couple of years, so I don't remember those details, just that I bought new "clutch plates" for the SureGrip and bearings and etc while he was at it.
Anyway, the instructions for the 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes (12.88 dia front, 12.19 diameter rear) call for the "Strange/Moser" green bearings with snap ring "loose" flange part# MO400...

Well of course Cass aka Dr. Diff had them, and even replied to my (central time) late night email, with a link to his website to buy them, which I did.
Can anyone shed some light on WHY these are required, and while I've always heard they are "better" than the factory adjustable bearings, I have no idea why.
Educate me please!
Thanks.
(Oh, and I'm about to have 4x 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes on my 70 Roadrunner)

 

[khryslerkid]

http://www.doctordiff.com/blog/tech-info/why-green-bearings/

 

[biomedtechguy]

@khryslerkid
LOL... me=
In my defense, after having given a well deserved plug for Dr Diff, I only followed the link to the bearings and placed the order, on my smartphone at that! I had to zoom in to read, and move the web pages all around so I could read different sections, so there was no way I would have noticed that primer on green bearings!
Thanks buddy!! I'm going to dig in to that article right now!

 

[biomedtechguy]

.I definitely had the bearings replaced, but it's been a couple of years, so I don't remember those details

BINGO!
After reading the article (thanks khryslerkid) now I remember! I bought the factory style Timken (USA) bearings, and paid the extra $40 bucks on top of the $65!
Anyone need some low mileage appx 3 yr old Timken bearings??

 

[5.7 hemi]

I’m not too sure they’d still be good after pressing them off. I could be wrong though.

 

[91r/t]

If you pressed them off using the inner race area only then it should be fine, but if you pushed on the whole bearing assembly then they might have been damaged when being removed.

 

[Mike67]

@Cranky installed mine after narrowing my D60....he may be able to shed some light on it...
Havent driven it yet... I hope my axles dont go sliding out....

 

[Cranky]

@Cranky installed mine after narrowing my D60....he may be able to shed some light on it...
Havent driven it yet... I hope my axles dont go sliding out....

The link that @khryslerkid provided in post #2 tells it all. And disc brakes simply do not like the semi floating axle Timken bearing setup on Mopar rear ends. And I hope the rear end doesn't break

 

[MoparLeo]

Lots of ball bearing vs tapered bearings information by bearing "Manufacturers" not retailers, available with simple online searches.
Ball bearing pros : lower rolling resistance and cheaper to manufacture, generally sealed, little to no setup, high rpm ratings.
Cons: poor sideload strength, light/medium duty load carrying ratings, ( due to very small bearing/race contact area ) . etc...
Much more detailed info available. A lot of vehicle manufacturers used ball bearings on the front and rear through the 50's . All went to tapered roller bearings on the front and rear due to durability issues. Differential assemblies almost exclusively still use tapered/rollers. Why ? Ball bearings are easier to setup and maintain.?

 

[Cranky]

Lots of ball bearing vs tapered bearings information by bearing "Manufacturers" not retailers, available with simple online searches.
Ball bearing pros : lower rolling resistance and cheaper to manufacture, generally sealed, little to no setup, high rpm ratings.
Cons: poor sideload strength, light/medium duty load carrying ratings, ( due to very small bearing/race contact area ) . etc...
Much more detailed info available. A lot of vehicle manufacturers used ball bearings on the front and rear through the 50's . All went to tapered roller bearings on the front and rear due to durability issues. Differential assemblies almost exclusively still use tapered/rollers. Why ? Ball bearings are easier to setup and maintain.?

All of the Dakota/Durango vehicles went to a cartridge ball set up and as far as I know, all of the cheaper FWD vehicles have them too which imo is better than a single row ball. Don't know what the full size Dodge trucks have but a lot of automotive rear differential assemblies have a non tapered roller bearing setup (c-clip rears). The newest diff I've worked on is a 97 Dana 70 with full floating axles and it of course has the tapered rollers. BUT, this post isn't about what's better....it's about what you can use when adding disc brakes to a semi floating rear end like the 8 3/4 and the Dana 60 car rears that use the tapered roller bearings.

 

[RJRENTON]

Lots of ball bearing vs tapered bearings information by bearing "Manufacturers" not retailers, available with simple online searches.
Ball bearing pros : lower rolling resistance and cheaper to manufacture, generally sealed, little to no setup, high rpm ratings.
Cons: poor sideload strength, light/medium duty load carrying ratings, ( due to very small bearing/race contact area ) . etc...
Much more detailed info available. A lot of vehicle manufacturers used ball bearings on the front and rear through the 50's . All went to tapered roller bearings on the front and rear due to durability issues. Differential assemblies almost exclusively still use tapered/rollers. Why ? Ball bearings are easier to setup and maintain.?

Can't resist the opportunity to reiterate a point on tapered roller bearings vs single row radial ball bearings....
The difference is significant. It has to do with the RADIAL and AXIAL load capabilities of each design. Single row radial ball bearings, either sealed, shielded, open, without/with a snap ring groove of the same basic part number have the same load capabilities. A sealed "for life" bearing does not mean your life (the purchasers life) its based on the L10 forcasted life expectancy when operated under design limitations.
I've asked about obtaining the part number of the actual Green bearing.....not the MO400 supplied number but the actual munber etched on the housing. The link to Dr. Diff's site and explanation presrnted does not furnish the information to actually compare the two fifferent hearings (Timken vs Green) in terms of engineering variables, but simply explains why you, the purchaser, should use them and how to install them.
Bearing have different speed ratings and load capabilities based on internal clearances as class ratings. A "lot of vehicle manufacturers" used ball bearings in the front and rear thru the 50s.....specifically which component used these bearings? What type of bearings were used? Duplex angular contact bearings or Conrad type or caged needle bearings.....each type having a defined application. Are ball bearings easier to install or maintain?......it depends on several variables, including the installers skill and ability. Are tapered roller bearings easier to install and maintain? The same variables apply as well. As far as rear end applications, the FORD 9" uses both tapered roller bearings AND a ball bearing on the gear end of the pinion, to control the separating forces between the pinion and ring gear at max loading (radial load). The axial loads on the pinion gear, being handled by the tapered roller bearings on the pinion stem.
Cartridge bearings on the front (and some rear) driving axles are usually duplex angular contact bearings in a sealed housing but are engineered and life tested to provide long trouble free operation.
There are the proponents for the Green bearing.....great....but for my money I'll stick with Mopar's design of Timken Tapered bearings ....and as Confusius said: you pay your money and take your choice and the consequences.....just my opinion of course. (And I'll step off of my soap box now).....
BOB RENTON

 

[Hemirunner]

Good Lord... here we go again... lol. The bearing debate continues...

 

[RJRENTON]

Good Lord... here we go again... lol. The bearing debate continues...

Jump in there and provide us all your thoughts preferences and the reasons for your selections......my thoughts and preferences are based on sound engineering principles, standards and practices......inquiring minds want to know....
BOB RENTON

 

[biomedtechguy]

this post isn't about what's better....it's about what you can use when adding disc brakes to a semi floating rear end like the 8 3/4 and the Dana 60 car rears that use the tapered roller bearings

Good Lord... here we go again... lol. The bearing debate continues...

Actually, NO!!
I'd appreciate it if you all would stay on topic, and I realize I am probably one of the worst for jumping in on a thread and sidetracking it, but what Cranky said is EXACTLY what is happening.
I have ONE CHOICE for bearings, and as few miles as I put on my Roadrunner, and what I do use it for, I am absolutely going to enjoy the "far more than needed" stopping power of my 4x 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes, and the teenager like pleasure I get from pointing out that in fact, YES, YES I DO HAVE 6 PISTON CALIPERS ON ALL 4 WHEELS!

Roadrunner work is coming along. Strange chromoly steel driveshaft and 1350 solid U-joints are installed, and when my bearings come in Monday, by Tuesday she will be shod with these beautiful brakes on all 4 corners:

 

[biomedtechguy]

you pay your money and take your choice and the consequences

Regarding that, when I had my 3.54 gears swapped to 4.10s, like I posted, I spent almost DOUBLE the cost of factory style bearings to buy the USA made Timken bearings...because since I had no idea how old the ones in my Dana 60 were, I wanted the whole rear axle assembly checked out and parts that wear and have important work to do replaced.
NOW I'm going to have the Strange/Moser style of green bearings, because that is what my beautiful bright red, 6 piston Wilwood rear disc brakes (w/parking brake mini-drum option, of course) REQUIRE.

 

[Cranky]

Actually, NO!!
I'd appreciate it if you all would stay on topic, and I realize I am probably one of the worst for jumping in on a thread and sidetracking it, but what Cranky said is EXACTLY what is happening.
I have ONE CHOICE for bearings, and as few miles as I put on my Roadrunner, and what I do use it for, I am absolutely going to enjoy the "far more than needed" stopping power of my 4x 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes, and the teenager like pleasure I get from pointing out that in fact, YES, YES I DO HAVE 6 PISTON CALIPERS ON ALL 4 WHEELS!

Roadrunner work is coming along. Strange chromoly steel driveshaft and 1350 solid U-joints are installed, and when my bearings come in Monday, by Tuesday she will be shod with these beautiful brakes on all 4 corners:
View attachment 988358 View attachment 988359 View attachment 988360

Man, you need to do some upgrades on that front end!!

 

[CHARGERSTEVEN]

Man, you need to do some upgrades on that front end!!

I dont see any more holes for nuts n a bolt

 

[biomedtechguy]

 

[Mopar Hunter]

I'm surprised that when I had my 3.54 Dana 60 gears swapped to 4.10s when the Passon Performance a855 5 speed went in, that I didn't get green bearings then...I definitely had the bearings replaced, but it's been a couple of years, so I don't remember those details, just that I bought new "clutch plates" for the SureGrip and bearings and etc while he was at it.
Anyway, the instructions for the 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes (12.88 dia front, 12.19 diameter rear) call for the "Strange/Moser" green bearings with snap ring "loose" flange part# MO400...
View attachment 988005
Well of course Cass aka Dr. Diff had them, and even replied to my (central time) late night email, with a link to his website to buy them, which I did.
Can anyone shed some light on WHY these are required, and while I've always heard they are "better" than the factory adjustable bearings, I have no idea why.
Educate me please!
Thanks.
(Oh, and I'm about to have 4x 6 piston Wilwood disc brakes on my 70 Roadrunner)

Is the snap ring on the Green bearing the only thing holding the axle in the housing?

 

[khryslerkid]

Is the snap ring on the Green bearing the only thing holding the axle in the housing?


View attachment 988449

The snap ring keeps the bearing from going back into the housing. The outer part of the bearing is held in place by the backing plate just like the taypered bearing and holds the axle from coming out.