Sub Frame Connectors

[GetX'd]

I installed sub frame connectors in my 68 GTX. They're bolted in vs. welded (thankfully). The motor was out of the car at the time of installation. I thought I read somewhere on FBBO that sub frames are one of the last things you should do - at least until you have all the weight together that the car is going to hold.

My motor is now in the car. Still plenty left to do but as far as weight bearing it's now pretty much what it's going to be. Interior seats still aren't in but that's about all.

The question is am I going to have a problem for installing the frame connectors prior to motor etc being in the car? If so what would I do to correct the problem - because they're bolted in am I okay vs. welded? What kind of issue would I be looking at. Worrying for no reason?

Thx for your advice in advance!

 

[benno440]

I don't think you will have any problem, especially if there only bolted ones, maybe some slight twist with welded ones but not a lot I would imagine

 

[747mopar]

The frame connectors I've seen recommend doing just what you said (install with full weight on tires), I would just unbolt one end once it's all together and see how much it has moved.

 

[69 GTX]

You could instal them. Then after you get the motor in just loosen all the bolts and retighten so they can find their "home".

 

[GetX'd]

Thx for the useful guidance! This is probably rhetorical but are welded connectors that much more prudent than bolted?

 

[sleepar]

the bolted ones can loosen up over time and are not as strong... the best way to go is to weld them in with the seats and carpet out of the car on a drive on lift with 150 lbs of weights in the drivers side having done a 4 wheel alighnment.... them remove the bolts and weld in the holes

 

[Dennis H]

the bolted ones can loosen up over time and are not as strong... the best way to go is to weld them in with the seats and carpet out of the car on a drive on lift with 150 lbs of weights in the drivers side having done a 4 wheel alighnment.... them remove the bolts and weld in the holes

...on a Sunday at Noon, sea level. Kidding. Agreed, they need to be welded for full function.

 

[conv67bdere]

Well GetX'd . . . I hope it's not an issue with the frame connectors being done without the engine in the car . . . as I've welded in my frame connectors and I have no engine, no interior, actually there's nothing in my car at this time ( which is the reason I chose to do it now - I can't burn anything up ). I did make sure that the car was sitting level, even though I had it up on jack stands. The rear tires jack stands were under the axles to simulate the proper ride height and weight, and the fronts were actually in the drive up type ramps, so the weight was on the tires evenly and as the car would ride.

Now that it's all done, my doors close much smoother, and I can jack the whole car up from one side ( I was adding a body caster, and jacked up the passenger rear side to install it, and the whole back of the car went up in the air at the same time ). The frame connectors made a world of difference.

The bolted on type give you support at front and back only - and they will provide assistance. But the welded on ones are welded the entire length of the floor, and this provide support the entire length of the frame connector. Both will help, but you gotta do what works best for you in your application. Having the bolt on ones is going to be much better then not having anything on the car.

- - - Updated - - -

...on a Sunday at Noon, sea level. Kidding. Agreed, they need to be welded for full function.

Oh yeah, that too Dennis . . . ( smile ) . . . almost forgot that !

 

[Dennis H]

Further, to the untrained Mopar eye, USCartool connectors in my R/T are not easily detected. Doors close better of me too, more solid and quiet ride like a modern car.

 

[conv67bdere]

USCarTools installed in mine as well . . . yup, yup ! !

 

[GetX'd]

I'm just repeating what I've read here on other posts. They tell me the motor or the full weight of the car needs to be in/on the car for the sub connectors to correctly influence the vehicle. I'm a bit new to this subject so I'm only saying what I've read. My motor was not in the car when I put them on. The motor is now in the car so I will be unbolting them and now welding the subs on the car under full weight.

I defer you're issue to others viewing this post with experience in the subject. I hope it's not an issue from you having welded the subs on with a vacant frame.

 

[AMX364]

The first sub frame connectors were installed on a 70 Barracuda conv. to fix a rattle that was a bear to find. When driving saw in side mirror that the door gap was moving and when I put my finger there while driving could feel it moving. Now I always weld one in for Mopars USCartool!

 

[Cranky]

The chassis builders will say that welded in frame ties are always the best way to go. Sure bolted in is better than nothing but welded is best. Also, I install roll bars and ties with the engine, trans and interior out of the way. If you weld in this stuff into a car that's loaded and the chassis is sagging, then you just beefed up a sagging chassis.

 

[zyzzyx]

Hey GetX'd, just wanted to chime in and say that you shouldn't have a problem with that method at all. Like conv67bdere said, better have something than nothing! The B bodies

are a little more stiff than you're giving them credit for, and the biggest tell is how the doors close when you're done. The welded in connectors are the best, and really stiffen things

up like they should have from the factory but I guess the cost of adding them at the time was too great. Convertibles really benefit from connectors and keep the doors in line. I put

in the U.S. CarTool connectors and set the car on four Jackstands with nothing in the car. Two at the front spring perches, and two just in front of the crossmember. Tacked them in

every three inches and then put it up on the rotisserie to finish welding. Unbelieveable! Good luck with the GTX!

 

[GetX'd]

I'm trying to stop the body from twisting under torque. There were splits in the door frames from twisting body when I jumped on it back in the day. Now I have considerably more hp and torque lbs. I've been told installation of these sub connectors will prevent the body from twisting. I'm going to weld them on now to get full benefit thx to info I'm getting from members.

 

[Dennis H]

I'm trying to stop the body from twisting under torque. There were splits in the door frames from twisting body when I jumped on it back in the day. Now I have considerably more hp and torque lbs. I've been told installation of these sub connectors will prevent the body from twisting. I'm going to weld them on now to get full benefit thx to info I'm getting from members.

Good advice. When MEW warmed up the 440 to about 500 at the crank, the windshield cracked the first time I romped on it. Then The connectors were put in. Put them in first.

 

[GetX'd]

What a great forum this site is to get and give. I appreciate everyone that's chimed in. This info helps a great deal as it comes from those with so much more experienced than I. I'm learning lot and my X is benefiting from it!

 

[747mopar]

Well GetX'd . . . I hope it's not an issue with the frame connectors being done without the engine in the car . . . as I've welded in my frame connectors and I have no engine, no interior, actually there's nothing in my car at this time ( which is the reason I chose to do it now - I can't burn anything up ). I did make sure that the car was sitting level, even though I had it up on jack stands. The rear tires jack stands were under the axles to simulate the proper ride height and weight, and the fronts were actually in the drive up type ramps, so the weight was on the tires evenly and as the car would ride.

Now that it's all done, my doors close much smoother, and I can jack the whole car up from one side ( I was adding a body caster, and jacked up the passenger rear side to install it, and the whole back of the car went up in the air at the same time ). The frame connectors made a world of difference.

The bolted on type give you support at front and back only - and they will provide assistance. But the welded on ones are welded the entire length of the floor, and this provide support the entire length of the frame connector. Both will help, but you gotta do what works best for you in your application. Having the bolt on ones is going to be much better then not having anything on the car.

- - - Updated - - -




Oh yeah, that too Dennis . . . ( smile ) . . . almost forgot that !

Not entirely so, yours do weld to the floors but most weld in subframe connectors only weld to the front crossmember and rear frame rails. On the type you installed the floor becomes the final side of the box seeing how it's a channels instead of a box whereas most are true box tubing and are quite rigid. I'm not entirely sure why they want recommend it (install while weighted) but my guess is that if installed while stressed (weighted) then everything will be in it's normal position meaning the connectors are just adding strength. Now think of everything being relaxed, add some connectors and then weight it down..............what happens? My guess is now instead of adding strength they are also trying to hold the car from going into it's natural position meaning more stress on the connectors. Just thinking out loud but what do I know.

 

[clemul]

For what it's worth, I was told by guy at the US Car Tool booth at carlisle it would be ok to level stripped car with doors on ( or placed back in original position) to confirm proper door gaps, tack connectors in place in multiple spots, put on rotisserie than finish welding...give them a call if you want to confirm..

 

[Darius]

For what it's worth, I was told by guy at the US Car Tool booth at carlisle it would be ok to level stripped car with doors on ( or placed back in original position) to confirm proper door gaps, tack connectors in place in multiple spots, put on rotisserie than finish welding...give them a call if you want to confirm..

This is pretty much what I did. I used XV (now defunct) connectors which welded to the floor all the way. I leveled it and hung the doors. Then tacked it real good, then raised the rotisserie off thr jacks and turned it so it was easier to weld.
Now the car is completely assembled and has been driven with no noticeable issues.