Tariffs On International Classic Car Sales

General Discussion

  1. 67GTX440

    67GTX440 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/...d-halt-all-international-collector-car-trade/

    This may kill off the international high end classic car market as it would impose a 25% tariff on vintage cars and parts imported into the US. The same tariff would apply to reproduction parts imported into the US. As retaliatory tariffs are imposed by other nations in response to US tariffs, this may kill off trade both ways.

    This will definitely hurt auction prices of the extreme high dollar cars most likely to be sold internationally at auction or by private sale. It will also increase the cost of restoring all cars if imported parts are involved. I can foresee a 25% increase in every Chinese or other non-US made part in the Classic Industries or Year One catalogs.

    It is hard to determine the impact of values of lower dollar classics that normally sell domestically. It could be a situation where all auction prices decline in response to the decline in top auction prices, or there is more interest in the low end of the auction market as the top end falters. It may cause more reproduction parts to be made in the US at the 25% higher price.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. beanhead

    beanhead FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Key word there is 'may'. Spread the fear, it's what those with the power of media seem to do best these days..IF it had an impact however I would be interested in the effect on the lower(normal!) end of the market...the author gives both scenarios but I think it would increase the domestic or lower-end side as the people who aren't 'too rich to care about the price' would still want in, increasing demand on that side
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 9:50 AM
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    • tmaleck

      tmaleck FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      It would take years to tool up any meaningful volume. The materials to make the equipment to make the parts is under tariff as well, making it more expensive than before tariffs to even get started. This is an unsustainable situation.

      If overseas million and billionaires want an expensive classic, 25% means nothing to them.
      Just my opinion.
      Tim
       
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      • beanhead

        beanhead FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Yep!
         
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        • Cranky

          Cranky Moderator Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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          If it'll help stop or at least slow down the importation of Shineeese crap, I'm all for it!

          I dunno about taking years to tool up. With today's technology, a year would be a long time but if you have to build a new building, then yeah, it could add to the time line. I'm already hearing about machine shops getting American made raw material to machine and some are even praising how much better it machines.....
           
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          • Slap Stick

            Slap Stick Well-Known Member

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            Yep. Chinese aluminum and steel usually dont meet spec.
             
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            • GetX'd

              GetX'd FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              May create a greater demand for the cars folks on this site generally drive. Still vaunted iron but not so expensive as to drive all buyers away. The really high end stuff - well those Saudi sheiks will just have to suck it up and break open their piggy banks. Don’t care about them.
               
            • hanks73340

              hanks73340 Well-Known Member

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              Remember, the 1st set of tariffs were all renegotiated a couple months ago and the news went away about that. The Chinese and other countries cannot afford to go toe to toe with the U.S. in the long run or maybe even the short run. Their middle class has some 600 million people that got a taste of decent living since the 90's and they are very well educated and that if their economy bites the dust it could mean a new revolution. The powers to be will renegotiate all of this again because bottom line, business is business. I don't care to much about The Don, but I do have to say he is somewhat leveling the playing field for the way other countries have taken advantage about doing business with the U.S. As for car sales, I really do not think it's gonna hurt the hobby with the exception of the high-end European models. As stated in an above post, the rich are still in the game and it won't deter them from their fun of owning those types of cars. Again, I believe this is all gonna be renegotiated where all will be happy with some prices might uptick on certain items for each country involved. Its business. I also believe that a few more jobs may be coming back here to be produced due to the fact that making products overseas is not as profitable as back in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Remember when everything was being produced in Japan, prices were cheap. Eventually as the cost rose on those products and the cost for Japanese companies to ship to the U.S. grew, those companies started moving production back here slowly. I know someone on this board is gonna come back and tell me I have no data to back this up. I do not have the data but I lived in Germany during summers as a kid growing up until I was 18. I saw first hand the taxes that were put on items that were made in the U.S. and shipped to Germany. In 1973 when we ordered a pair of Levi Blue Jeans thru a local market the cost was $35 when back in the states they were only $9.95. I will never forget that. That was just one item. I know thru a cousin over there that a pair now are over $100 dollars. NUTS! I could go on about other items we had purchased to be shipped over there but that's the general view of what we dealt with when there. Sorry for the novel folks, but I think it will all work out in the end.....gotta be positive!:D:thumbsup::drinks::usflag::canada:
               
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              • JB400

                JB400 69 Charger FBBO Gold Member

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                Price will just go up some more. It'll be unaffordable for Europeans and Australians to ship a car from the States, so prices for local cars will go up, till it's affordable for Stateside shipping again, and US prices will go up, till the economy crashes.
                 
              • gdrill

                gdrill Just enjoying "B"-ing here FBBO Gold Member

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                Opinion......This is exactly what happens when you start a tariff war.
                The consumer is the victim and loses every time.
                 
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                • Budnicks

                  Budnicks Sir Posts A lot FBBO Gold Member

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                  It may just work as intended too,
                  stimulate spending & purchasing 'made in the USA' products
                  it may be tough for a couple months,
                  but it's for the better of all American,
                  we shouldn't have to worry about any other country's cost...

                  sorry but that's reality, been happening to US for decades now

                  What's fair is fair, they {any country that's bitching & moaning}
                  tariff the shit out of our goods, across the board,
                  we should do the same
                  If you live in a country that high tariffs,
                  maybe you should talk to your own Politicians,
                  about reciprocation of tariffs,
                  'do un to others, as they do un to you'... comes to mind

                  America 1st, any other country does that same thing
                  we just get called out on it, when we want fair trade practices...

                  I don't have a problem paying a little more
                  if it benefits my fellow American...

                  I actually make my best attempt to purchase
                  'Made In America' parts anyway,
                  too bad more people didn't do that, we wouldn't be in the situation,
                  we are now & yes some stuff, it's getting hard to find...
                  I don't mind, if it's for the good of my country...
                  I hope it makes a more even playing field too,
                  the USA has been taken advantage of for decades now...

                  Maybe it will spawn some more new parts manufacturing
                  if they know they can have a more even playing field
                  especially with labor costs & production costs,
                  they mostly all {foreign countries} tariff the shit out of our stuff...
                  Just maybe USA co.'s, foundries, manufacturers, parts producers
                  they may just take a leap of faith too...

                  The people overseas, or to the north or south of US,
                  we can't control what their own govt./leaders do...

                  I'd highly suggest you look at you own govt. policies 1st
                  change it in your own country, look in the mirror 1st...

                  The high end buyers of most the cars that get shipped out,
                  they can afford it, the rest, they need to take action
                  'with their own govt. bodies, not bitch & moan about ours"...

                  That's my opinions, take it or leave it, I couldn't care any less...
                  I care about the USA 1st & foremost....

                  Jack Webb as Joe Friday Dragnet -Just the facts Man-.png
                   
                  Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 6:59 PM
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                  • NJRR

                    NJRR FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    Everyone complains about the Chinese crap parts anyhow, so if American made parts will be more competitive and better quality it's a plus for the hobby.
                     
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                    • flypaper

                      flypaper FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      this is just the beginning of ending that war
                      other countries have been shoving tariffs up our ass's for decades.
                      we might have to endure some pain to correct the problem
                      I'm just glad we have someone with the nads to try to do
                      something about it
                      unlike what others have done in the past which is keep bending over
                       
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                      • ws23jrt

                        ws23jrt FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        When someone starts talking about "tariffs" and adds the word "war" after it ---the feathers tend to ruffle and the -fight back-mentality comes into play.

                        Seeking a level playing field is the goal.

                        Any "tariff" is a kind of slap against a trading partner.--A counter tariff is usually a re-leveling effort -of the playing field. I guess that is a kind of "war". You slap me-I slap you back.--Sand box stuff for third graders--

                        IMO this sort of "negotiating" between countries is much better than using bullets and bombs. It can cut to the chase to the benefit of both parties.

                        We all should be thankful that these types of -conflict/disagreements- in commerce- are not overwhelmed by religious differences.
                        When that happens REAL live killing wars happen.
                         
                        Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 6:00 PM
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                        • gdrill

                          gdrill Just enjoying "B"-ing here FBBO Gold Member

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                          Yes, I used the term "war". Perhaps a strong word, but a fair description for economic manipulation. It is however much better than religious conflict as you said. I like President Trump and 88% of what he does and is doing. Be it up front or sneaky. But the tariffs is not on my good list. It is really simple. He stated Canada has a 300% tariff on dairy to the U.S. This is true. And that is all most people will hear and defend. They will not research any further. Most Canadians don't agree with our system we have in place for the dairy producers. It is basically a price guarantee. It isn't that way in any other industry. Regardless, all of Canada has less population than the state of California. How much dairy does anybody think they are going to ship here? The economic benefit is negligible! It may benefit 9 farmers, (exaggeration), but it isn't going to change the U.S. dairy market. Not even slightly!

                          Anyway, tariffs cost the consumer. Corporations still make their profits regardless. Tires cost more when oil goes up. Tires don't get cheaper when oil goes down. We, the consumer, lose every time.

                          This isn't bitching and moaning, it is an opinion.
                           
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                          • ws23jrt

                            ws23jrt FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            Consumers do indeed feel the immediate effects of the tariff negotiations that take place.
                            Both parties -of that -conflict know that and endure the political fall out from it. --Or are blind to it as the case may be.
                            They are the leaders we all voted for to do our bidding.
                             
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                            • beanhead

                              beanhead FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                              We've been losing industries, jobs, etc to offshore manufacturing for a long time now. It's effects in the last handful of years have kinda steamrolled and we're seeing it all over. What's the solution? Do we just keep losing out doing what we've been doing? If it was easy wouldn't something have been done ny now? Nothing but lip service to try to appease the masses by the last, what, 4 administrations, while we slip farther behind. I'm not the president and I don't know all the answers, but at least our government is now making an earnest effort to do something about what no one else has. Playing nice and letting ourselves be taken advantage of sure hasn't worked out too well...
                               
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                              • coronet68mx

                                coronet68mx Well-Known Member

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                                A war Tariff is a dead end for the countries involved in it , for example in retaliation for the steel and aluminum tariffs , other country's impose tariffs on pork meat since the U.S. is a large producer of this item and produce more meat then consume it this tariff most likely will hit all the production chain involved the pork and the main consumer of pork meat is China and us exports a lot of pork , and this goes on and on, the same thing for corn, it's not patriotism is common sense , this has been done before in the past and it proves to be a complete failure , the casualtys of this war are the consumers you and me and everybody my .02 cents .
                                 
                              • ws23jrt

                                ws23jrt FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                                Would the defence in a "tariff war" be to just live with what is imposed and make the best of it?
                                 
                              • coronet68mx

                                coronet68mx Well-Known Member

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                                Am not an economist or a politician but seem that a free trade economy is the best way to go IMHO