This car is fighting me from getting finished.

[adk-roadrunner]

I'm finally close to the end of this 318 to 440 swap in my 73 Roadrunner but it's fighting me. I say 318 to 440 swap but really it's a complete drivetrain swap including the 440 I rebuilt and a 727 trans I also rebuilt as well as a complete front end and suspension rebuild. The engine is a 440 bored 30 over with speed pro six pack pistons, comp 284H nostalgia cam, Edelbrock E street 75cc heads, smith bros push rod's, PRW steel 1.6 ratio rockers, all running on Edelbrock E street Efi and being cooled by a champion 26" 3 row with a shroud and 2x12" fans also being controlled by the edelbrock efi system. The trans is a 67 727 I rebuilt and installed a Transgo TF2 shift kit and I also installed a mid 70's valve body in as the original had cracks in it. I used an A&A transmission 26-2800 stall converter per their recommendation. The first of the issues I've been dealing with is heat. The engine seems to run pretty hot and by the digital gauge in my edelbrock efi it runs from 203f to 214f and this is with straight water and a 195f thermpostat. when it says it's 214f it seems very hot and underhood temps get high as the efi has registered that it was too high at one point though when I took a picture of the factory guage at the same time it registers normal. The other main problem I'm running into is the trans shifting. When I set the TV cable to have the lever full with full throttle it would shift 1st to 2nd perfectly but would never shift to 3rd. I loosened the cable a bit and I can get it to shift to 3rd now but I have to be easy on throttle then left off gas when I think it should shift and it does but if I'm on it it never seems to shift. I've been battling these problems and it is really starting to get frustrating after a month and a half of working on the car every free moment lol.

 

[70chall440]

Have you used an IR thermometer gun to see if the engine is really at 200+? I found that there is a fair amount of difference in many temp sending units. Are these temps at idle or during driving? Have you tried running some antifreeze in it? If this is a new engine, many times they run hot initially, personally I don't get too worried until I am getting near 220. 214 is getting there but it depends on the overall situation.

Focus on one issue at a time if you can and address that, try not to look at everything in total.

 

[MoparMur]

I'm not an expert but I'm a little worried about having that later model valve body in that '67 case. Reason being the '67 never had part-throttle kickdown and the later v/body likely does (dependent on year, I think '71 was the first year for 727 PTK). That being said, from what you say at least the trans has the CAPABILITY to get 3rd gear, so I'm thinking your governor may be sticking; that would definitely delay the 2-3 shift.

 

[Frank Mopar]

If you are running a stock spark plug you need to drop two heat ranges or more. Do this first before you do anything else.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

I'm not an expert but I'm a little worried about having that later model valve body in that '67 case. Reason being the '67 never had part-throttle kickdown and the later v/body likely does (dependent on year, I think '71 was the first year for 727 PTK). That being said, from what you say at least the trans has the CAPABILITY to get 3rd gear, so I'm thinking your governor may be sticking; that would definitely delay the 2-3 shift.

ya before doing the swap I had bought a device from A&A transmission that was supposed to give the old valve body part throttle kickdown but upon disassembly we found a crack inside the valve body. After researching quite a bit we came to the conclusion that it is a common mod to just swap the valve body with a newer unit to achieve the same goal. my buddy happened to have a valve body so I installed the shift kit and tossed it in once the rest of the trans was rebuilt. I've added pics of the crack and also the band adjuster bolt was somehow broken off as well right at the jam nut.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

If you are running a stock spark plug you need to drop two heat ranges or more. Do this first before you do anything else.

right now I'm running champion RC 12YC as these are the plugs that were recommended in the instructions for these Edelbrock angled plug heads. I'll look into what colder plug I should use.

 

[AR67GTX]

I see no reason for running a 195 F thermostat. I usually run a 180 or even 160 anymore. Today’s crappy gas doesn’t tolerate a warmer engine very well and newer high quality oils combined with less contaminants from unleaded gas can cope with the lower temps OK.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

I see no reason for running a 195 F thermostat. I usually run a 180 or even 160 anymore. Today’s crappy gas doesn’t tolerate a warmer engine very well and newer high quality oils combined with less contaminants from unleaded gas can cope with the lower temps OK.

I have 160 thermostat I could use but assumed since I'm running hot it would just stay open and cause the coolant to not spend enough time in the radiator and compound the issue.

 

[MCODECUDA]

Add Water Wetter or antifreeze to your radiator. That alone will drop your temperature.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

Add Water Wetter or antifreeze to your radiator. That alone will drop your temperature.

I will definitely look into water wetter. I have antifreeze already but hadn't put it in because I didn't wanna have to drain it if something went wrong. Stuff is expensive these day's and it's so easy to just pop off lower radiator hose and let it drain on ground when doing thermostat changes or other troubleshooting things.

 

[R413]

I have 160 thermostat I could use but assumed since I'm running hot it would just stay open and cause the coolant to not spend enough time in the radiator and compound the issue.

A 160 and a 195 thermostat work exactly the same. They just do it at a 35 degree different temperature.
Nothing wrong with a 160, I use them in some cars. Either that or a 180, I never put a 195 back in,

 

[oldbee]

How many miles on engine,could still be breaking in? Yup, go a 180t-stat.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

How many miles on engine,could still be breaking in? Yup, go a 180t-stat.

Maybe 2 miles definitely still breaking in. I did cam break in for 30 minutes and drove around block a few times. Haven't driven more as I've been nervous to get too far away with it running hot.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

A 160 and a 195 thermostat work exactly the same. They just do it at a 35 degree different temperature.
Nothing wrong with a 160, I use them in some cars. Either that or a 180, I never put a 195 back in,

Am I wrong or would a 160 technically never close if the engine or water temp rather never goes below 160? I did buy a 160 already because my buddy told me that's what he runs. I definitely can try it.

 

[AR67GTX]

Well, as I understand them, the rated temp is where they start to open and it can take another 20 deg to fully open. So, a 195 thermostat may not be fully open until 215deg +/-.

 

[oldbee]

You're kinda right. At 200* all of them are fully open, but the 160 has been fully open from the last 40* temp.rise.

 

[dadsbee]

I have a 190 stat in the Bee... and you tell me, as this is exactly where it runs all day long even on a 100 degree day when moving. Sitting in a drive through line for 20 minutes it'll creep to 200F at center scale. Temp reading verified with a thermal gun pointed at the sender area of the water pump.

 

[adk-roadrunner]

I have a 190 stat in the Bee... and you tell me, as this is exactly where it runs all day long even on a 100 degree day when moving. Sitting in a drive through line for 20 minutes it'll creep to 200F at center scale. Temp reading verified with a thermal gun pointed at the sender area of the water pump.
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I don't understand your statement. Are you saying a 190 is the way to go?

 

[MCODECUDA]

I will definitely look into water wetter. I have antifreeze already but hadn't put it in because I didn't wanna have to drain it if something went wrong. Stuff is expensive these day's and it's so easy to just pop off lower radiator hose and let it drain on ground when doing thermostat changes or other troubleshooting things.

Doesn’t your radiator have a drain in it?

 

[adk-roadrunner]

Doesn’t your radiator have a drain in it?

The slowest drain on plant earth I swear it would take 2 days to drain the system lol.