timing problem

[gaspar sosa]

Hello, I recently change to a ready to run distributor and I can not make the car to start again. I have determined TDC with a plug tool and nothing flipped the wiring because maybe it was 180 but nothing. It only cranks. i have spark going to the cylinder and tried everything, I think. talk to the technician and said that as long I have TDC that is my #1 and go around my distributor with no problem. I read that my #1 should face the piston 1 but mine doesnt. I have read treads here but I don't have the tool for vacuum and every mechanic want to charge over $500 for diagnostic. Any ideas.

 

[Don Frelier]

If you have spark and it ran before then it should run again:
1. rotor towards #1 plug wire at top dead center on compression stroke, remember there is an exhaust stroke as well.
2. Small block or Big Block? Small block distributor is clockwise, Big Block counter clockwise 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Number 1 does not not necessarily need to face towards the cylinder, it just need to match the piston position relative to TDC.
Choke closing?

 

[coloradodave]

1) Pull #1 (driver's side front) spark plug.
2) Key off. Put your finger over the #1 spark plug hole. Jump the two main terminals on the starter solenoid on the firewall with a screw driver. Just tap it a little at a time until you feel pressure trying to blow your finger off the hole. Stop!
3) Look at the crank balancer. The timing mark should be approaching the timing tab. Tap solenoid terminals again to try and get the mark lined up close to the 10*BTDC mark on the tab. If you go too far, you have to go around twice and try it again.
4) Pull distributor cap. Where ever the rotor is pointing is where you want to place #1 plug wire. Then wire the rest in order (1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2). CCW if a big block, CW if a small block. Replace #1 spark plug.
5) Start car...

 

[gaspar sosa]

If you have spark and it ran before then it should run again:
1. rotor towards #1 plug wire at top dead center on compression stroke, remember there is an exhaust stroke as well.
2. Small block or Big Block? Small block distributor is clockwise, Big Block counter clockwise 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Number 1 does not not necessarily need to face towards the cylinder, it just need to match the piston position relative to TDC.
Choke closing?

Thank you, it is a big block 383,

 

[Don Frelier]

It's possible that the plugs are fouled. You might want to pull a couple. If that are wet then hit them with a heat gun or a torch. Or leave them out overnight.
You will get it.

 

[gaspar sosa]

1) Pull #1 (driver's side front) spark plug.
2) Key off. Put your finger over the #1 spark plug hole. Jump the two main terminals on the starter solenoid on the firewall with a screw driver. Just tap it a little at a time until you feel pressure trying to blow your finger off the hole. Stop!
3) Look at the crank balancer. The timing mark should be approaching the timing tab. Tap solenoid terminals again to try and get the mark lined up close to the 10*BTDC mark on the tab. If you go too far, you have to go around twice and try it again.
4) Pull distributor cap. Where ever the rotor is pointing is where you want to place #1 plug wire. Then wire the rest in order (1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2). CCW if a big block, CW if a small block. Replace #1 spark plug.
5) Start car...

thank you, there is something that I have not heard before, "If you go too far, you have to go around twice and try it again" I was using the stop piston tool to find TDC. since the balancer came with the car I figure that it might no to be trust.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Big block 383. If everything is set in the engine per the service manual, on the compression stroke the rotor should be pointing more toward the horn or washer bottle.

 

[Lefty71]

Does it start right up, if you put the original distributor back in??

 

[ksurfer2]

Hello, I recently change to a ready to run distributor and I can not make the car to start again. I have determined TDC with a plug tool and nothing flipped the wiring because maybe it was 180 but nothing. It only cranks. i have spark going to the cylinder and tried everything, I think. talk to the technician and said that as long I have TDC that is my #1 and go around my distributor with no problem. I read that my #1 should face the piston 1 but mine doesnt. I have read treads here but I don't have the tool for vacuum and every mechanic want to charge over $500 for diagnostic. Any ideas.

Do you have spark at start AND run? When I installed the ready-to-run in my car that was the issue I ran into. I had spark while cranking to start, but as soon as the key went to run...nothing. I needed to do a little re-wiring to make it work and then no problems.

 

[coloradodave]

Gaspar, when you used the TDC tool did the timing mark on the balancer turn out to be correct? If yes, unless you checked that you were on the compression stroke as I laid out in post #3 above, you could be on #6 compression stroke, which is half way through the firing order. If you have a good blue spark at the plugs when you crank it, the problem could be that the spark isn't arriving at the correct time. Remember that the crank makes TWO revolutions to fire all eight plugs.
Don made a good suggestion about checking if the plugs are wet. I see a lot of the time, guys get confused about where the rotor has to point. When you're having a problem getting it fired, as explained above, when the timing mark is lined up, and the engine is on TDC for #1 , the rotor needs to point at the #1 PLUG WIRE TOWER in the distributor cap. If it is, it will fire the correct plug at the correct time. At this point, it is all you need to know. Plenty of time in the future to fine tune your set-up.
Good luck,
Dave

 

[gaspar sosa]

Does it start right up, if you put the original distributor back in??

No, I trow it away because it was not passing voltage any more.

 

[gaspar sosa]

Gaspar, when you used the TDC tool did the timing mark on the balancer turn out to be correct? If yes, unless you checked that you were on the compression stroke as I laid out in post #3 above, you could be on #6 compression stroke, which is half way through the firing order. If you have a good blue spark at the plugs when you crank it, the problem could be that the spark isn't arriving at the correct time. Remember that the crank makes TWO revolutions to fire all eight plugs.
Don made a good suggestion about checking if the plugs are wet. I see a lot of the time, guys get confused about where the rotor has to point. When you're having a problem getting it fired, as explained above, when the timing mark is lined up, and the engine is on TDC for #1 , the rotor needs to point at the #1 PLUG WIRE TOWER in the distributor cap. If it is, it will fire the correct plug at the correct time. At this point, it is all you need to know. Plenty of time in the future to fine tune your set-up.
Good luck,
Dave

Thank you for the advice I will start from zero this weekend and will post any news.

 

[Lefty71]

Do you have spark at start AND run? When I installed the ready-to-run in my car that was the issue I ran into. I had spark while cranking to start, but as soon as the key went to run...nothing. I needed to do a little re-wiring to make it work and then no problems.

No, I trow it away because it was not passing voltage any more.

Here's why I asked; certainly not criticizing anyone for helping, but there's a natural assumption that you may have dropped the new distributor back in incorrectly and everyone always starts with that. But, some of the ready to run distributors arent really drop-in units. Certain ones need a wiring change and specific coils to work. So lets back up and it may help us to know what you are dealing with; such as
1.) What is your car?
2.) Is it points or changed over to electronic ignition from points?
3.) Who's ready-to-run distributor? MSD?
4.) Have you carefully reviewed the wiring diagrams that came with it
5.) Have you checked for component compatibility in the instructions, specifically the coil and possibly the ballast resistor?

No one here wants (you) to pay $500 for mechanical work of that nature, and unless they specialize, they would have to do the same research you are doing anyway. Strong chance it can be figured out if these boys have enough info to go on.
HTH, Lefty71

 

[Dan64]

thank you, there is something that I have not heard before, "If you go too far, you have to go around twice and try it again" I was using the stop piston tool to find TDC. since the balancer came with the car I figure that it might no to be trust.

You probably already know this but when you use a piston stop tool you have to spin the motor in both directions. Mark where it hits moving ccw and then spin cw and mark . TDC is exactly in the middle of the two.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

With any “ready to run” aftermarket ignition system on a Mopar, be sure the ignition sense lead is connected to both the IGN1 (blue) and IGN2 (brown-ballast by-pass) wires in the engine harness. Otherwise the unit will not operate while cranking.

 

[TwoDogs]

I am having a similar issue, I have an 440 with an MSD electronic ignition, having problems getting the engine to fire. I see where I need to make sure the firing order is as stated above, and I have. How do I tell which location on the rotor is the #1 position?

 

[Gold Rush]

I am having a similar issue, I have an 440 with an MSD electronic ignition, having problems getting the engine to fire. I see where I need to make sure the firing order is as stated above, and I have. How do I tell which location on the rotor is the #1 position?

Determine top dead Center (TDC) as talked about above and see which distributor terminal the rotor is pointing at.

 

[TwoDogs]

I went and looked at the car after I sent the message, pulled my head out of my *** and figured that out......I think I better step away for the day....Im not thinking clearly. thank you for the feedback. I will let you know what I end up finding...

 

[coloradodave]

Lefty; His original post (#1) said that he had spark at the cylinder, so we know he had spark while cranking. Whether he has it in 'run' position is another story, but you would think he would at least get a few pops.

 

[gaspar sosa]

Here's why I asked; certainly not criticizing anyone for helping, but there's a natural assumption that you may have dropped the new distributor back in incorrectly and everyone always starts with that. But, some of the ready to run distributors arent really drop-in units. Certain ones need a wiring change and specific coils to work. So lets back up and it may help us to know what you are dealing with; such as
1.) What is your car?
2.) Is it points or changed over to electronic ignition from points?
3.) Who's ready-to-run distributor? MSD?
4.) Have you carefully reviewed the wiring diagrams that came with it
5.) Have you checked for component compatibility in the instructions, specifically the coil and possibly the ballast resistor?

No one here wants (you) to pay $500 for mechanical work of that nature, and unless they specialize, they would have to do the same research you are doing anyway. Strong chance it can be figured out if these boys have enough info to go on.
HTH, Lefty71

Hello, been busy and I did not have the time to work on it. but it is a dodge charger 69 with a 383 when i bought it came with the orange ignition box. I upgraded the whole electric and decided to get rid of the orange box since it was broken. the system only required the coil and a positive 12 v wire that has to be hot while cranking and running. I am not using any ballast from the old ignition box. I just connected together "ign 1 and ign 2" from the ignition switch. maybe after the holidays, after I exhaust all my options, I will take to a mechanic. Thank you all that replied