trans gear selector shaft seal

[resq302]

On a 69 Plymouth GTX 727 trans, I have a trans leak coming from the vertical gear selector shaft where the shift linkage connects to and goes inside the trans. Is the seal accessible by dropping the trans pan or is it something that you need to drop the entire trans to repair?

 

[Propwash]

You can change that with the trans still in the car, as well without dropping any crossmember/lines/linkage/pan. I had to recently do the same last fall. I've see folks slap stuff together to make a kind of homemade tool to do it, but I bought a specific tool to do it and didn't have to mess around. A link to the tool is listed below. I believe I bought it off ebay (around 20 bucks). The black piece has tapered threads at the bottom. That slides over the top the the shift selector shaft/kickdown shaft. It threads itself into the seal. On top of that piece there is a threaded hole (believe 5/16). You run a bolt into that hole and it bottoms out on the top of the shaft. Keep turning the bolt and it lifts the seal out. The other piece is for installing the new seal. Just keep the seal level and push down on top that piece. I used a pry bar that had just the right angle to guide it in flat. Didn't take much pressure at all. Pretty easy to do, doesn't take long. Just make sure you use an inspection mirror to ensure you have no dirt/grime in the seal opening when you install the new one. Took me about 10 minutes..

Good luck/hope it helps

http://www.ampro-usa.com/ProductDetail.aspx?id=18965&PR_CA_id=327&strFromURL=ProductList

 

[A383Wing]

you will need to remove valve body in trans as well

 

[resq302]

Would I need to replace any gaskets in the valve body? Or would I just need to replace this seal that is leaking? I want to make sure I have everything that I need before I start the job.

 

[A383Wing]

no gaskets needed for valve body removal...just be careful and don't lose yer balls out of it

there are 2 seals up there for shift shaft selector...the large one is usually what leaks...there is a smaller one for the inner shaft as well

 

[Propwash]

Would I need to replace any gaskets in the valve body? Or would I just need to replace this seal that is leaking? I want to make sure I have everything that I need before I start the job.

No, just the shift selector seal. No need to drop the pan/valve body either. Like A383 mentioned, typically it's the big one that leaks. Here's a link I dug up with a few pic's of the process and a alt part# for the tool:

http://ramchargercentral.com/vehicle-help/need-shift-shaft-seal-removerinstaller-kd-tools-2392/10/

 

[resq302]

hmmm..... ok. Wonder if there is an exploded view anywhere. Really would be nice to remove and install the seal without having to drop the valve body. I'd be worried about losing the balls. Can you get the seals pretty much anywhere?

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ok, thanks Propwash!

 

[Propwash]

No sweat....The seals are pretty common. You could probably easily get one from your local parts store or transmission shop. If that don't pan out, they're all over the internet. Sure beats dropping a pan/vb or tranny to change it, but you'll ed up with a tool you may never use again. So I guess you'll have to weigh what your time/effort is worth vs. buying a tool you may/may not ever use again.

Good luck

 

[PDFROGMAN]

I might have one in my tool box
I will check later on
If I have one it's yours

there is also another small seal on stem for the throttle valve usually overlooked

 

[Hemi Rebel]

hmmm..... ok. Wonder if there is an exploded view anywhere. Really would be nice to remove and install the seal without having to drop the valve body. I'd be worried about losing the balls. Can you get the seals pretty much anywhere?

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ok, thanks Propwash!

You wont lose any balls pulling the valve body out. They're internal to the valve body and you would have to disassemble it to find them.
How is your fluid? When was the last service? Cause if its due you might as well drop the pan and the valve body and do it that way.

 

[Badvert65]

You wont lose any balls pulling the valve body out. They're internal to the valve body and you would have to disassemble it to find them.
How is your fluid? When was the last service? Cause if its due you might as well drop the pan and the valve body and do it that way.

What he said. Best advice yet, and you can get one of the newer, crush proof, pan gaskets while you are at it.

 

[razreddobie]

The National seal part number is 8609. Just got one for mine.

 

[resq302]

Well, I got the tool and all it did was pull the metal lip of the seal upward and the tool did not stay in. I had to drop the pan which I did last year anyway as we thought it was the pan gasket leaking. We did put one of the reuseable gaskets in there at the time so we are good there. In dropping the valve body, the rod that holds the car in park dropped out and we can not get the valve body back in place. According to the FSM, I'm going to have to remove the tail shaft section of the trans in order to access the sprag which retains the parking rod. Luckily, we are able to do all this in the car still and while dropping the trans down a little, is allowing me some extra room to clean the 44+ years grease and grime off of the tranny! There is a local trans shop to me who is big enough and makes their own parts. I highly recommend them. FATSCO Auto trans parts, part of Fisher Auto Trans Company. They are in Montville, NJ and for the tail shaft cover seal, speedometer o ring and shaft seal, filter, and a modified and improved selector shaft seal (I still have to see it today) the total bill came to just $6 and change. One thing that I am worried about is that the gear selector shaft has two grooves in it. Probably from the seal being dried out and hardened and cut into the metal similar to what the front oil seal does with a harmonic balancer. Bad news is they do not make a repair sleeve for it but have this new seal. I'm hoping it either moves the contact surface of the seal up or down or makes the seal a little tighter. We shall see when I get back over to Dad's on Monday!

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PDFrogman, thank you for the offer but I got the tool already.

Hemirebel, fluid and filter was done last year just after we got the car. First thing we do whenver we get a new addition to the family is change out ALL the fluids in the car as I personally have no knowledge of how old the stuff is. Always prefer to know my vehicles like the back of my hand

 

[Hemi Rebel]

You dont need to pull the tail shaft to get the parking pawl back in. Jack up the rear wheels and rotate the drive shaft while working the rod back in place.

 

[Propwash]

That's pretty surprising. How far did the tool thread into the seal? I ran mine in till the taper was wedged pretty dang tight into the seal, almost crushing. Never heard of folks having issues with it. Mines been loaned out and used probably 1/2 dozen times without that issue. Anyways, sorry to hear it. Sounds like it was a good thing you had to go in and investigate anyways. Hope the rest of the tear down/assembly goes well for you.

 

[resq302]

Hemi Rebel,

At the time, I couldn't get to my FSM but after reading through it, you are correct. I currently have the drive shaft out of the car but have a spare slip yoke to put in so I can rotate it and try to get it back in.

Propwash,

I tried to use the thin flat screwdriver to pop it out first. I think that is where I started doing the "can opener" effect which is why the tool did not work that well.

On the upside, I did find that when I dropped the trans cross member, the original rubber trans mount was still there. Pics will be posted in the resto thread I have on going for the car.

 

[Propwash]

Sorry to hear it man......I honestly did the same thing before I bought the tool, but must have gotten really, really lucky.

Never the less, cool to here about your luck with the tranny x-member mount!

 

[resq302]

Yeh, this car keeps surprising me one thing after the next. I got everything finally reassembled on the trans today with all the linkage and rods. Tranny fluid added and just have to get the engine back together to run it and see if I need to add any additional trans fluid. Be sure to check out my "Bringing it back to factory specs" thread.