Trials and tribulations: R&R of a 440 oil pan.

[kaj750]

In case anyone is searching for R&R of an oil pan for a 440, I’ll post my experience here. This is me “figuring it out on your own and learning by making mistakes”.



First: I had trouble pulling the oil pan off. The FSM states to rotate the pan counter-clockwise but that didn’t work for me. I rotated the pan as far as humanly possible, but no luck.

After a lot of pulling and twisting, the oil pickup rotated around, clockwise, which enabled me to FINALLY drop the pan. The fact that it moved is obviously not great. I also happened to notice there was no windage tray. Thirdly, I found a spot on the pickup where it looks like something knocked into it. Interesting. Engine previously showed no sign of oil starvation/lack of pressure.

To test a theory, I tried to install the pan with the pickup in place. There is just no way. I can’t turn the pan far enough CCW to clear the pickup. I then put the pickup where it was when the pan came off. The pan went on with only a bit of hassle. I then reattempted the same with a windage tray in place. The pickup would not rotate enough to get the pan on, as the tray blocked the last bit of rotation.

What I think I learned from all of this is that the original owner installed the pan with the pickup rotated CW and no windage tray, to allow the pickup to turn far enough to clear the baffle. This left it far enough over that the crank had to self-clearance and knocked the pick up out of the way.

What this leaves me with is a pickup that is not completely tight but doesn’t seem to have a problem functioning and a pan that won’t go on unless the pickup is loose. With all my test fitting and experimenting (I was bored, since I can’t put the car back together), the only way this all worked was to:

• Cut a relief in an old windage tray to allow the pickup to rotate enough to get the pan on.
• Place the modded tray and pan into place.
• Wiggle everything into place – effectively moving the pickup counterclockwise to clear the crank and be in the bottom of the pan.
• Hope that putting everything back the way it was (incorrectly) holds up the same way I did before.

So, since I can’t do any of that, I guess what I’ll actually be doing is:

• Lifting or lowering the engine enough to give me the room needed to pull the oil pick up out (it hits an engine mount, so can’t be removed),
• Tape it up, then reinstall correctly.
• While I have the clearance, I will hopefully have enough room to rotate the oil pan enough to get it installed.
• Hope I NEVER have to replace the oil pan again.

The kicker is: I probably didn’t need to pull the pan, in the first place. I just wanted to have a nice, clean, singular gasket after redoing my timing chain. On the bright side, I’m using a windage tray/o-ring gasket so a couple extra R&Rs won’t be too big of a deal.

I’ll update as I go. Hopefully this eventually provides insight to someone of what NOT to do while messing with an oil pan LOL.

To be continued….

 

[gkent]

Maybe you should have asked first !!

 

[R413]

What car?
Which pan?
What exhaust system, manifolds or headers?

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Wow! Sorry brother. I have only replaced aftermarket pans & pickups in the car. I never had those issues, but maybe because the “screen area” is so much smaller on Moroso or Milodan pickup tubes than stock pickups???

 

[hunt2elk]

Rotate the crank a bit for more clearance of the weights. Can't say I have ever had as hard of time pulling a oil pan as you did.

 

[MarPar]

Remove the pitman arm nut and then drop the tie rod. All the room you will need.

 

[Bird 426]

They are all a little bit different, so is my Milodon road race pan and windage tray. First, with some of the above info, are you sure that the pan and pick up are correct? Are they stock? Modifying the Milodon windage tray for my application is normal. I have to turn the pick up CC a bit, the pan comes off fairly easily, the windage tray is a trick, that has to go on and stick it and the silicone to the block, straighten the pick up out and get the pan up before the windage tray falls down. I use a couple of short studs to align things so that they do not get smeared around. So they all have there quirks! Mine is made a lot easier because I have a tubular front end.

 

[kaj750]

Maybe you should have asked first !!

Let's not open that can of worms LOL.

Wow! Sorry brother. I have only replaced aftermarket pans & pickups in the car. I never had those issues, but maybe because the “screen area” is so much smaller on Moroso or Milodan pickup tubes than stock pickups???

Yeah.. the screen portion of the pickup is pretty large, compared to the baffle opening and it almost all fits underneath. I am curious to know how this was done at a shop, back in the day. Unless I have the wrong pickup or the pan has the wrong baffle. All I know is that it somehow went together, at some point, and oiled the engine just fine.

Rotate the crank a bit for more clearance of the weights. Can't say I have ever had as hard of time pulling a oil pan as you did.

I did. Plenty of room up front, just not enough space under the car to orient the pan where it needs to go. I'm thinking I need to be really aggressive with my transmission lines and really, really get them out of the way. I still have to resolve the pickup issue, first.

Remove the pitman arm nut and then drop the tie rod. All the room you will need.

Done. No steering items are currently on the car (replacements waiting to be installed).


Update: no update LOL. The car is still on jack stands, waiting for me to find a way to get the pickup out.

I'll be removing the driver-side engine mount, then dropping the engine as much as I can. This should give me enough room to R&R the pickup. I'm hoping enough to get the pan on, too.

Just for fun, I'll get a video of what's going on and post it here for everyone's entertainment LOL. I work the next five days, but will tackle it after.

The oil pan in question (I bought what was on it, since it seemed to work):

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-9496

 

[kaj750]

It only took two months, but the pan is on the car. How much time did I actually spend doing it vs angrily sitting on my couch? Not sure.

Anyway, posting for anyone who doesn't know how to do this and stumbles across this via search. That's right. For free. No gatekeeping. I'm not old enough to be a crotchety boomer, so willing to help people I don't know LOL.
Okay, okay. enough with the jokes, let's get to it.

Problem #1: I couldn't get the oil pan off, hence this thread. It was stuck on the pickup no matter what I did. I ended up forcing the pickup to rotate and then was able to drop the pan. Which brought up..
Problem #2: The oil pickup was loose enough to rotate by fingertip.
Problem #3: The oil pickup couldn't be removed due to hitting the k-member while being threaded out.

The Fix:
I ended up having to unbolt the driver-side engine mount, remove it, and drop the engine enough to remove the pickup. I then added teflon tape to get the pickup to tighten where I wanted and ensure it sealed. This didn't help with the pan, unfortunately, so I then had to raise the engine about as far as it would go to allow enough space to manipulate the pan into place.

For any first-timers: you have to be sure the pickup passes through the baffle and then rotate the pan around so the pickup goes under the baffle. I honestly didn't see how it could possibly fit but it came OFF the car, so I know it had to. Well, it does LOL.

To further complicate the process, the holes on the timing cover (already installed) didn't line up so I then had to pull the timing cover off again. With new gasket into place and the timing cover loosely installed, I was able to get the last two oil pan bolts started then torque the timing cover down. Again.

Oil pan on. Timing cover on. I can finally put everything back on the engine. I sure miss driving the car.

 

[ckessel]

Still viable. As I found out today on my wagon.