***UPDATE*** on my 383 and NorCal Engine Builders/Machine Shops

[cr8crshr]

Well...It turns out after pulling the engine yesterday, 383BB, that it is in fact the Rear Main Seal that is leaking. The 2 Galley Plugs and the Cam Plug are dry and no leakage there either. I started the tear down of the engine today and after removing the heads and studying them with a Lupe and magnifying glasses. I noticed that the Valve Stems for both the intake and exhaust have been ground down on some while others are not. When viewed, the ones not ground down have the tapered area still at the top of the valve stem while the others it is not flat. The heads are stock 516's that have been reworked with larger exhaust valves and mild polishing and porting...although you could fool me on that one as there is no evidence of it having being done. Again what I am finding is that the firm that I had put this thing together...Ca Street Machines in Suisun CA...has done some things that I wasn't aware of while not doing things on the job order that I requested. Now it is way after the fact as the engine was built in 2005 and we are in 2012 so I cannot go back at them for their failure and the Son no longer works there. He is the one that put my engine together. Any way...I have never heard of having to grind down the valve stems before and was wondering if this is an excepted practice? Now that I have the heads off, I am wondering also if I just shouldn't upgrade to an Aluminum set? I am partial to the Edlebrocks offering with Closed Chambers/76cc's but the cost is more than the budget can absorb right now. That being said...440 Source is next on the list. This build is not for a race application but a nice streetable cruiser with some attitude if I need it. What if any grips, issues, complaints, endorsements, positives, etc. have any of you had with them. I know they are cast off shore and then machined here in CA but how are they out of the box. Like anything there needs to be some messaging of it but what I have read so far on the 440 Source heads including their web site makes me inclined to do business with them. And the price is attractive too. So far the lower end internals that I can see look excellent. That includes the lifters and the Cam Lobes as I was terrified that there would be something there to add to the overall frustration level. Piston are the Speed Pro .030 Flat Tops and after cleaning off the Carbon from the initial fire up and break in look in perfect shape too. So at least the bottom end, other than the Rear Main Seal swap, will be good to go. As far as the Rear Main Seal goes...I have a Billet Retainer on the engine at present but will be going back to the stock unit and better seals. Gathered a lot of info regarding that issue and will keep it simple with the original set up. No Rope though. I have the original Retainer and a NOS/New Virgin one as well. I will update as I get into it on Thursday...waiting on parts tomorrow. :headbang:

 

[RustyRatRod]

Grinding the valve stems is perfectly acceptable. WHen the valve faces and seats are ground, the valves go into their seats deeper and cause the valve stem to go into the guide further. This changes valvetrain geometry, so the valve stems must be ground to compensate. If they are sharp around the stem ends, a simple process was skipped that puts a bevel on the edge of the valve tip. The only real purpose this serves is to assure the valve seals are not cut on assembly.....but it's not unimportant and should not have been left out. You paid for it, after all, since it is part of a valve job.

As for the heads, I have no direct experience, BUT I know our local porter pretty good and he likes the 440 Source castings. He says they are high quality. He's been a porter for thirty plus years, so he oughtta know good castings, I would think.

 

[coloradodave]

Ditto on machining the valve stems. Standard procedure.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Stemming the valves is part of a valve job, but if only some have been ground, it's possible the head guy was compensating for uneven seat depths. Still, it sounds like the 516's are useable assuming the spring heights are correct and they have hard seats for the unleaded gas. Also do they have bronze or cast iron guide inserts and the valve stems in good shape with the proper guide clearance? If they meet all the criteria for rebuilt heads then use them and save yourself a bunch of money. They are not my first choice of heads but will work fine for a street car, especially on a 383. My advice is to fix only what needs fixing, put that sucker back together and run the heck out of it. If you want to add a bit of a cam I recommend you know what your actual compression is and select accordingly. Note: Zero deck pistons on a 383 with the 79.5 cc heads should put you in pretty good shape for a slightly over stock cam.

 

[69a100]

Let me also add some things things that Cr8crshr didn't mention about the heads. It also appears that some of the valves are flush with the head, while others appear to be into the chamber, while others seem flush with the head on one side while the other side seems to be into the chamber. All most like the guide wasn't drilled perpendicular[sp?] to the chamber. Did I make sense on that?? At any rate, all valves at the chamber end aren't all equal/flush or close to it with each other like I think they should be. Explain, and continue debate.

 

[RustyRatRod]

There should always be a margin. The margin is the part of the valve that extends past the outside of the valve face and is supposed to be inside the chamber. In other words, the valves should not be flush, or sunk into the seat area, but they should sit into the chamber the distance of the margin. If the valves are showing to be flush or less than flush on one side and more than flush on the other, then there's a problem. Some accompanying pictures would be helpful. It's hard to imagine a shop would let that kinda of work go......or even do it in the first place.

Let me also add some things things that Cr8crshr didn't mention about the heads. It also appears that some of the valves are flush with the head, while others appear to be into the chamber, while others seem flush with the head on one side while the other side seems to be into the chamber. All most like the guide wasn't drilled perpendicular[sp?] to the chamber. Did I make sense on that?? At any rate, all valves at the chamber end aren't all equal/flush or close to it with each other like I think they should be. Explain, and continue debate.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Yep, sinking the valves beyond what it takes do true the seats up is not good and at some point you will need to put a seat in or get another head. ALL the valves should be even and in some cases the spring heights will need to be adjusted with valve spring inserts (VSI). Sinking the valves too much will also require different length push rods to put the lifter plunger back in the proper position.

 

[cr8crshr]

Thanks Bro for adding that info I left out. I will get some pics up in the next day or 2 of the heads and the Valves. If it is an accepted practice to grind the ends to facilitate geometry, then I have learned something new about engine builds and modifications. The learning curve never stops does it? The Cam is a Hughes 2328 Hydraulic with their Lifters. It is a mild cam but will let one know that some work has been done and the car has some attitude. Guides are Bronze as well with hardened exhaust seats. The point of saving a few bucks and not go with the 440 Source Heads pleases me as I am on a real tight budget with this build. By the way...The Engine did fire up on the first crank during initial break in and has started each time subsequent to the initial start. So it does run and has a very nice exhaust tone...2.5 inch TTI's with HP Exhaust Manifolds...so I know it will run. Just that the Engine hasn't sounded quite right to my ear and the main fact that I have had a "HELL" of a time getting the Valve Lash spot on and the Rocker noise to subside. You all know what I mean here when something just doesn't sound or feel right. It's the "Gut Feeling" thing? Any way stay tuned and thanks for all the advise and input. No fun having to tear apart again after putting it together again after taking it apart again. Just that the perfectionist in me and the thoroughness of doing it right the first time keeps me pressing forward. But for how much more????

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well, I'll say this. The latest and greatest fastest rates of lift and most aggressive lobes ain't always a good thing. I have been argued against the wall when I say that, but it's true. You will never have a quiet valvetrain with some cam grinds. Also too, aggressive lobes are harder on the valvetrain components. Sometimes, depending on what you want to do, old school slow acting lobes are better. They actually will make more power on the top end, all else being equal. Regardless, just know that using aggressive lobe designs (like Lunati VooDoo, Hughes and the like) will result in a noiser valvetrain and possibly even one that may not last as long compared to an old tried and true lazy lobe. There's a lot to be said about old school stuff that's been proven for decades.

 

[69a100]

You'll get no arguement outta me on that Rusty! BTW, love the avatar!

 

[Budnicks]

if you have to spend more $$$$$$ money on those heads

Cr8crshr if the heads are wiped out, try the Edelbrock E-Street Aluminum Cylinder heads, 210 cc intake runners, 75 cc Chambers, 2.14" intakes & 1.81" exhaust valves from Summit Racing for $979.95, will ship tommorrow, if you needed them, they would be a perfect head for your intended use & 383ci combo, they are a better head, than the stock cast iron heads in several different ways {in my opinion anyway}, they are lighter, they flow way better, will run cooler, they have blind exhaust bolt holes {not into the water jackets}, they have larger valves, better valve springs, retainers, seals, hardened seats & better locks, they have many advantages over stock cast iron low performance cylinder heads, the weight saving alone will improve performance & handling, Edelbrocks are an American made American owned company, the heads are 100% American made, machined & assembled here, also have American made quality parts, already installed, if you have & are willing to spend the extra funds of course... Any heads should be checked out & cleaned at a minimum, no matter WHO you get them from... If your going to spend the extra money, do it right the 1st time, or 3rd time now {sorry I couldn't resist, no offense intended}, if you wanted Aluminum heads or were thinking about them, now is the time, instead of wasting money, on an old wore out inferrior part, you've waited this long already, a little longer won't or shouldn't be a real big deal... The cast iron heads you have, can be made to work, but if you have to spend a bunch more $$$$$$$$ on them, just add the extra money & get the E-Streets, it will be money well spent.... Just my $0.02 cents, I'm really good at spending other peoples money...LOL... I wish you all the best in what ever you choose to do, Good Luck buddy....

- - - Updated - - -

PS, if you go the route of the aluminum heads, who's ever brand, you choose, you will need to buy ARP Head bolts & hardened washers, to install & torque them properly, they are like another $60, also get a head gasket that is designed to go on, an iron block with aluminum heads, Fel-Pro or Commetic both have decent choices, another $40... Your excessive valve train noise, you mention that something didn't sound right, it could be, worn rocker shafts & rockers &/or the wrong length push rods & improper lifter pre-load, if you change the heads or when reinstalling the heads, check the length for the proper type/style/length push-rods, performance cam types will vary in base circle & if the heads were shaved or the block was decked or the valve ground to dfferent lengths, push-rod length will possibly need to be change... Smith Brothers Push-Rods is a very good choice @ a reasonable price, with great quality & service.... Hang in there buddy... This hobby always seem to cost a ton of $$$$ , especially if you want to do it 100% correct & have it last.....

 

[cr8crshr]

Budnicks I only use ARP Bolts and Fasteners on my engines so I am good to go there. I will also go with the Cometric style head gasket in place of the FelPro or MOPAR thin head gaskets. I plan on doing my upgrade purchases through Hughes Engines as I have their cam and lifters already. That way they can get the heads set up to match the Cam specs. Done business with them in the past and if you follow Dave's recommendations and suggestions, their stuff comes out working as advertised. Just got to start saving the $$$$'s for them. And with being retired and on somewhat a "Fixed Income" it will take a month or 2 to gather it up. There is still tons of little stuff I can do in the meantime one of which is to change the rear gears from 3.91's to 3.55's....

 

[69Bee]

Grinding the valve stems is perfectly acceptable. WHen the valve faces and seats are ground, the valves go into their seats deeper and cause the valve stem to go into the guide further. This changes valvetrain geometry, so the valve stems must be ground to compensate. If they are sharp around the stem ends, a simple process was skipped that puts a bevel on the edge of the valve tip. The only real purpose this serves is to assure the valve seals are not cut on assembly.....but it's not unimportant and should not have been left out. You paid for it, after all, since it is part of a valve job.

As for the heads, I have no direct experience, BUT I know our local porter pretty good and he likes the 440 Source castings. He says they are high quality. He's been a porter for thirty plus years, so he oughtta know good castings, I would think.

As Rusty said, this is the proper way to finish grinding the valves, to include needing to put the chamfer back. The only caution is that most stems can only be ground a max of 0.020" so that you don't get into soft metal.