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Vacuum Advance

ksurfer2

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Without starting another debate over the benefits of vacuum advance, I have a question. On my 440 6bbl (bored/stroked to 493), the vacuum advance is NOT hooked up. Car runs great, starts easy and has plenty of power. Initial timing is set at 15 degrees. I don't recall total. Lets say I wanted to experiment with hooking up the vacuum advance to see any changes in how the car runs. What changes, if any would I need to make to the timing settings?
 
I would start by hooking to ported vaccum supply at the center carb. See how it runs and go from there. You might be happily surprised by a little better fuel mileage. I wish someone made an adjustable one for our cars like they do for every thing else. I see where Tonys Parts is making them for some of our rigs.
 
I would start by hooking to ported vaccum supply at the center carb. See how it runs and go from there. You might be happily surprised by a little better fuel mileage. I wish someone made an adjustable one for our cars like they do for every thing else. I see where Tonys Parts is making them for some of our rigs.
That is where I had planned to hook it up. No changes in timing as it is set now? Just plug it in at give it a test drive?
 
YUP. If it pings you can back off the initial or put one of the centrifugal limit plates in. Dont think you will have an issue though.
 
If it does not ping without vacuum advance, and it does ping with vacuum advance, do not reduce total mechanical advance. You could 1) increase mechanical advance and the reduce your initial., 2) In stall stiffer mechanical advance springs, or 3) adjust your vacuum unit.
 
With 15 deg initial advance you may have problems activating the vacuum advance. It may create an over-advanced situation at steady throttle cruise at speeds above where most of your centrifugal advance is pulled in. You will feel it as a light, constant miss in the engine. If so, you can try to find an adjustable vacuum can that allows you to limit the amount of vacuum advance it pulls in.

I'm actually a fan of vacuum advance - helps the engine run cooler for one important thing. Also can help mileage if that is important to you.
 
I plan to try the vacuum advance on my 6-pack motor (not hooked up & running good now without it). Most vacuum cans I've worked with can be adjusted with a small allen wrench inside the hole where the ported vacuum hose attaches.
 
That is where I had planned to hook it up. No changes in timing as it is set now? Just plug it in at give it a test drive?
Keep in mind, he said ported vacuum. Means no vacuum at idle being applied. Also as soon as you lose vacuum no more advance. Only time it might ping is light load low rpm.
 
One thing you might want to do is to see if you can figure out how much advance you'll have. The can should have a number on it somewhere. There is also an adjustment on the spring pressure in the can which doesn't adjust the total amount of advance but it will change the rate of advance. Different cans are available but they can be tough to track down.

Otherwise I'd say hook it up and start driving it. Take some notes to see what you think and then work on the issues if they come up. Adding more advance at freeway cruise will really help the fuel economy. On my car the difference is around 30% less fuel used at cruise speed with 45 degrees of advance vs. 34 degrees of mechanical. That extra 11 degrees of advance really reduces the fuel requirement with no other effect that I can see or feel.
 
Well, back to thoroughly confused about hooking this up and have it run properly. I guess I'll just leave it as is.
 
Well, back to thoroughly confused about hooking this up and have it run properly. I guess I'll just leave it as is.
It is confusing and with so many differences of opinion it makes it worse. That's why I said it works for me. Some say no vacuum advance, others say ported, still others like me say manifold vacuum.
I have an initial timing of 14 and 34 all in. With the vac can connected to manifold vacuum, I get the benefit of easy starting and immediate advance to around 24 at idle therefore a cooler engine. As rpm increases, the vac advance decreases so there is only a small amount of advance at part throttle so I don't get the pinging. There is no vacuum advance at WOT.
It takes time to tune it but it's not that bad and worth the time on ANY street engine to run vacuum advance. If you read Don's article and let it digest, it simply makes a lot of sense.
Good timing light
Vacuum gauge
Tach
Using all three will get you dialed in for optimum performance. I use a handheld tach so I have everything all under the hood.

I have talked to guys that say they have tried manifold vacuum and their engine didn't like it so the bottom line is experiment to see what your engine likes. It's worth the effort.
Good luck my friend. Shout back with your results
 
So the center carb has a vacuum port on it, that is ported...correct? the port in the attached pic (below the carb) is manifold, correct? Based on what I have been reading, this is where I should connect the port on the distributor (MSD Ready to Run)?
vacuum.jpg
 
So the center carb has a vacuum port on it, that is ported...correct? the port in the attached pic (below the carb) is manifold, correct? Based on what I have been reading, this is where I should connect the port on the distributor (MSD Ready to Run)?
View attachment 702081
Yes on both, the port on the manifold is full vacuum at idle and decreases as you throttle, the other increases as you throttle to a point. Neither will give you advance at WOT
 
So the center carb has a vacuum port on it, that is ported...correct? the port in the attached pic (below the carb) is manifold, correct? Based on what I have been reading, this is where I should connect the port on the distributor (MSD Ready to Run)?
View attachment 702081

I also have a MSD (RTR) distributor (part number 8387) and it tells me in the manual to hook up the vacuum source to a ported vacuum point.
The vacuum port you are referring to is indeed a manifold vacuum port and i cannot see a ported point on that picture.
A ported vacuum point is located on the carb body, it takes vacuum from above the throttle plates.

Edit: Just read that story of 4secondsflat....i will connect it to a full manifold vacuum.
If only it was of his demanding story :thumbsup:
The man got a very good point there though!

Screen Shot 2019-01-08 at 15.49.45.png
 
Last edited:
So the center carb has a vacuum port on it, that is ported...correct? the port in the attached pic (below the carb) is manifold, correct? Based on what I have been reading, this is where I should connect the port on the distributor (MSD Ready to Run)?
View attachment 702081

The tree at the back of your manifold is "manifold", has vacuum full time at idle. Some carbs have "manifold" if the nipple is below the throttle plate. If the carb has a "ported" nipple it will be above the throttle plate. The "ported" won't have vacuum until you start to open the throttle.

Easy way to tell if you have an adjustable vacuum advance can on your distributor is that it will be six sided not round. Here's a pic why they are six sided. (This one has been cut apart)
1403306.jpg
1403303.jpg


As to find out what works for your application, you have to get a timing light hooked up and see just what it's doing. First without any vacuum hooked up, you need to see what the mechanical part of the distributor is doing. Then once you have that figured out and it's what you want, then you can move on to the vacuum advance part of it. You want to see what its doing throughout the whole rpm scale.

Let's say you set your initial at 16* (no vacuum advance hooked up). As you rev the engine the timing mark will start advancing. When it stops advancing make note of where and what rpm. Lets say 34* at 2500 rpm. Thats your "all in" at 2500 rpm.

Now hook up you vacuum can to what ever you want to try (ported or manifold). On ported you will probably see your initial 16* at idle and while revving the engine you'll see the "all in" 34* at 2500 rpm, then as you go past that rpm you'll see the vacuum advance come in and it might go almost off the scale. Ideal would not be past 50-55*. If it goes past that you'll need to adjust the vacuum advance to limit it to 50-55*. Just an example of what you might find when first setting things up with ported vacuum advance.

Hooking the vacuum advance to manifold will be different because the advancement is made right after the engine starts. Set your initial without vacuum hooked up, check your all in. Then hook up the vacuum advance and see how it acts throughout the rpm range.

Like Bill Monk said, you have to experiment with both and see what works for your set-up.

My 440 with dual 4bbl doesnt like manifold at all. I've tried to get it to work but it just won't. My conclusion is that I have too much vacuum with my cam. If it was a lumpier cam with low vacuum then manifold might work. Jmo

Take your time and get familiar with whats going on. It's a lot to get your head around at first. Good luck.
 
I also have a MSD (RTR) distributor (part number 8387) and it tells me in the manual to hook up the vacuum source to a ported vacuum point.
The vacuum port you are referring to is indeed a manifold vacuum port and i cannot see a ported point on that picture.
A ported vacuum point is located on the carb body, it takes vacuum from above the throttle plates.

Edit: Just read that story of 4secondsflat....i will connect it to a full manifold vacuum.
If only it was of his demanding story :thumbsup:
The man got a very good point there though!

View attachment 702085
When you make the change, you will have to adjust down the idle and recheck your mixture screws. Every change affects something else
 
When you make the change, you will have to adjust down the idle and recheck your mixture screws. Every change affects something else

Currently i am driving with no vacuuum advance, there will be plenty for me to play with because my manifold vacuum is pretty low overall due to a pretty wild cam
 
Currently i am driving with no vacuuum advance, there will be plenty for me to play with because my manifold vacuum is pretty low overall due to a pretty wild cam
You may have to change the vacuum can out (I did) for the same reason and the stock can wants around 14" of vacuum to come in. The modified vacuum can I got from him comes in at 7
Don has them: http://www.4secondsflat.com/
 
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