gkent
Well-Known Member
I have an "on-demand" unit and so does my son. We'd never go back to a tank unit.
Water Heaters
- Thread starter JR_Charger
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What is wrong with keeping a 25 year old unit working?
I've probably installed 40 and probably repaired another 60-75 or more.
This was in the 90's and some were from the 70's.
BTW, if the OP understands what a "water hammer" noise is, it may not have anything to do with the workings of the unit, it may just need a "water hammer" pipe installed.
I've seen that happen a few times, too. No issues for years, then the water pressure/supply/air decides to get noisy.
I've probably installed 40 and probably repaired another 60-75 or more.
This was in the 90's and some were from the 70's.
BTW, if the OP understands what a "water hammer" noise is, it may not have anything to do with the workings of the unit, it may just need a "water hammer" pipe installed.
I've seen that happen a few times, too. No issues for years, then the water pressure/supply/air decides to get noisy.
Lefty71
Well-Known Member
Well, a 20 year old Rheem ( or any home depot) tank is a thin walled Mexico built unit..... not an old heavy unit by any means. And if he is indeed hearing "kettling" which is build up of minerals and calcium sludge on the walls, then there is no repair to be made. Now, if as you say the
"water pressure/supply/air decides to get noisy"
then i just dont know what that means.
"Water hammer" is air in the pipes.
Sometimes worse when flow stops.
"A water hammer" is a stub of pipe installed (usually) at a 90 degree junction to let air go up while water goes sideways.
That's a commercial one that looks like it might be more than just a pipe, but you can DIY with just a length of pipe, commonly 4-6 inches.
Sometimes worse when flow stops.
"A water hammer" is a stub of pipe installed (usually) at a 90 degree junction to let air go up while water goes sideways.
That's a commercial one that looks like it might be more than just a pipe, but you can DIY with just a length of pipe, commonly 4-6 inches.
Lefty71
Well-Known Member
I sure dont want you or anyone to think im arguing, but there is no air in water supply, except maybe some sketchy old well systems with suction side issues.
Water hammer is caused by quick closing valves....especially solonoid type valves like the ones on every washing machine and dishwasher. Some shower controls can also make the water hammer if you close them quickly enough. This whole hammer issue is magnified by piping that is not well supported or has come loose over time. The fitting you show is a code requirement on residential washing machines.....it can not be duplicated with a short piece of pipe. What you describe would be waterlogged, and useless within days or less.
Great subject. I just replaced a gas water heater from 1988 yesterday. They definitely don’t build them like the old days. And on a side note, I just got off the phone with a friend who suddenly had a clanging sound when turning off the kitchen faucet hot side, thought it was coming from the adjacent bathroom wall. I said doubtful, check under floor. He found two copper pipes making contact.
tonysrt
Well-Known Member
If the drain valve leaks after draining some water at that point you could put a hose cap on it to stop the water leak. I don't like testing through the T&P valve because it could start leaking because maybe some debris could prevent it from seating properly and now the valve will have to be replaced. I also have an expansion tank installed on the feed line to prevent other problems. I have a gas water heater and it's 17 years old.
Totally correct. If you do need to drain the tank, try to replace the drain valve with a full port unit. The opening on the factory jobs a small, and are usually plastic and will leak or worse after
Messing with them. Also, I’ve found it’s best to replace the anode rod with a magnesium unit, better than aluminum.
tonysrt
Well-Known Member
I thought they went away from the plastic drain valves because of the problems it created. My 17 year old A.O.Smith has a brass drain cock.
Lefty71
Well-Known Member
Only in some cases. Most wholesale tanks come with full port brass drains. But remember, the bean counters at the corporate level will always be there to burn your a$$ if it makes them another dime. They care not about the problems you will encounter. Believe it or not, I knew the guy who invented that early plastic drain.....the one that you had to turn the whole drain, but you had to leave the hose loose to do so.....and if you turned it far enough, and then spun it the other way, the whole thing would come apart. What a peach that was!!
I see those drain valves every now and then, they are terrible! Most of us local plumbers here try to steer customers towards gas tankless heaters because the tank gas units are so unreliable now. I literally have eight different replacement gas valves in my truck right now. I tell people if there ancient water heater still works, keep it and pray! One of my clients has a 1959 Sears Homart electric water heater, still works
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Biggest problem with water heaters is sediment build up that eventually shorts out the lower element. Drain some water to see how much sediment comes out.
I had a gas one with the computer at the bottom. Sump pump quit during a storm and flooded the basement. Shorted out the computer. Also they say the burner plate is ruined when this happens? Replacement was very expensive just for that unit. Also you have to worry about how much water soaked up into the insulation. Replaced the whole thing with a basic electric one.
I had a gas one with the computer at the bottom. Sump pump quit during a storm and flooded the basement. Shorted out the computer. Also they say the burner plate is ruined when this happens? Replacement was very expensive just for that unit. Also you have to worry about how much water soaked up into the insulation. Replaced the whole thing with a basic electric one.
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My family has a large amount of rental properties, so I have about 40 years worth of water heater experience I can share.
For ease of replacement when possible we have switched out most of the units to 30 gallon electric heaters.
While the instant water heaters are cool they usually require three 20 amp breakers to operate a large household unit.
Since most older properties/ houses don't have the breaker box capacity for this it makes them unfeasible in most applications.
For what it's worth I have only replaced one upper element out of hundreds I've changed out over the years.
It's always the bottom element because it gets packed with sediment.
90 percent of the time you won't get the drain valve to work because of sediment, so either make a mess or just replace the whole unit.
Most of the time if you can drain it you can replace the lower element one time after you take a rod and poke around in there making room for the new element.
However, upstairs units, or units that are not possible to just pull the lower element and let them drain out I just replace them with the tank full.
I like to use larger wattage elements that make a double pass (longer) out and then make a 180 degree turn back. They last longer because of more surface area.
Electric water heater elements all require a 1-1/2" socket to get them out, but they can be extremely stuck at times.
I have a dedicated 3/4" ratchet with a 18" handle that I leave a socket on all the time for this job.
Water heaters used to be really inexpensive, but now even the bottom of the barrel unit is $600
When they are on sale I usually buy several extras at a time. Very handy to have at 8pm on a Sunday night.
Most people are unaware, but lower cost water heaters have a fill pipe inside that runs straight down the inside wall.
Over time sediment just piles up on the bottom of the tank covering up the lower element, and thus most of the issues with electric units.
The higher cost/ commercial units have a water fill tube that wrap around the inner diameter of the tank and exits in a way that cause the inlet to swirl.
Because the water is swirling it never allows sediment to build up on the bottom of the tank.
Rarely will you ever see a bottom element fail on one of these units.
I always like to use just a small dab of anti-seize on the new element threads.
Also, I usually install two 1/4 turn shut off valves when I replace one just because it make like so much easier the next time service is required.
Compared to most things we deal with in everyday life a water heater gives you years of daily service with no required maintenance, but when they do it can be fun.
Tom
For ease of replacement when possible we have switched out most of the units to 30 gallon electric heaters.
While the instant water heaters are cool they usually require three 20 amp breakers to operate a large household unit.
Since most older properties/ houses don't have the breaker box capacity for this it makes them unfeasible in most applications.
For what it's worth I have only replaced one upper element out of hundreds I've changed out over the years.
It's always the bottom element because it gets packed with sediment.
90 percent of the time you won't get the drain valve to work because of sediment, so either make a mess or just replace the whole unit.
Most of the time if you can drain it you can replace the lower element one time after you take a rod and poke around in there making room for the new element.
However, upstairs units, or units that are not possible to just pull the lower element and let them drain out I just replace them with the tank full.
I like to use larger wattage elements that make a double pass (longer) out and then make a 180 degree turn back. They last longer because of more surface area.
Electric water heater elements all require a 1-1/2" socket to get them out, but they can be extremely stuck at times.
I have a dedicated 3/4" ratchet with a 18" handle that I leave a socket on all the time for this job.
Water heaters used to be really inexpensive, but now even the bottom of the barrel unit is $600
When they are on sale I usually buy several extras at a time. Very handy to have at 8pm on a Sunday night.
Most people are unaware, but lower cost water heaters have a fill pipe inside that runs straight down the inside wall.
Over time sediment just piles up on the bottom of the tank covering up the lower element, and thus most of the issues with electric units.
The higher cost/ commercial units have a water fill tube that wrap around the inner diameter of the tank and exits in a way that cause the inlet to swirl.
Because the water is swirling it never allows sediment to build up on the bottom of the tank.
Rarely will you ever see a bottom element fail on one of these units.
I always like to use just a small dab of anti-seize on the new element threads.
Also, I usually install two 1/4 turn shut off valves when I replace one just because it make like so much easier the next time service is required.
Compared to most things we deal with in everyday life a water heater gives you years of daily service with no required maintenance, but when they do it can be fun.
Tom
Last edited:
Might be why mine is still cooking.....it has the swirl feature. Also has the 1/4 turn shut off.
Lefty71
Well-Known Member
This is true.....and to add..... You know you are old when you remember buying 6 gas units at a time for $125.00 a piece lol.
I’ve only seen two lower elements actually covered with sediment, they were both on wells with extreme calcium in the water.
When I flushed out my tank after 8ish years I only got about a handful of sediment. If you guys are seeing the element covered, what sort of crazy water is that?
When I flushed out my tank after 8ish years I only got about a handful of sediment. If you guys are seeing the element covered, what sort of crazy water is that?
I NEVER drain an electric unit to replace an element.
I put a towel partially inside the outer skin, and let the rest hang out.
If all the valves and faucets are closed, I usually lose about a cup or 2 of water.
You gotta be fast, but it gets easier the more you do.
Worst think that can happen (besides butter fingers) is the old gasket is hard and parts of it stick on the mount flange.
I've recovered from that and only lost about a gallon, though.
I put a towel partially inside the outer skin, and let the rest hang out.
If all the valves and faucets are closed, I usually lose about a cup or 2 of water.
You gotta be fast, but it gets easier the more you do.
Worst think that can happen (besides butter fingers) is the old gasket is hard and parts of it stick on the mount flange.
I've recovered from that and only lost about a gallon, though.
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