What am I doing wrong with my brakes?

[65PlymSatellite]

Been having nothing but issues with brakes on my '65 Satellite. All started when I bought the kit from CPP (Classic Performance Parts Placentia, CA). Installed the kit and come to realize, the booster doesn't work. Pedal was extremely hard. Went back several times for them to tell me nothing was wrong with anything and finally gave up with them and began with replacing the booster. Got a booster that was rebuilt at an experienced, reputable shop (Karp's Power Brakes in Upland, CA for anyone in SoCal I.E.). After the booster, the pedal felt normal but was sinking real low. Almost to the floor boards. Before that, the pedal was hard but didn't sink. The pedal travel seemed to have doubled. I thought while I'm at it with replacing the booster, might as well replace the master cylinder too. Got a Willwood with a 1 1/8 bore according to their tech line. Bled the M/C, then the lines at the wheels. The Pedal still sinks. And after all that, the car does not even stop well. While testing the brakes at about a 40 MPH "Panic Stop" the car travels about a length of 3 to 4 cars. Definitely not the "Stop-On-A-Dime" performance others tend to experience from the "Disc-O-Tec" swaps. The only thing I have left on the car from the CPP kit are the spindles, "slider" type calipers, and plain rotors. So what am I doing wrong, and what can I do to be able to drive with some piece of mind?

Any help GREATLY appreciated.

 

[65PlymSatellite]

Booster And M/C with Willwood Adjustable proportion valve

 

[65PlymSatellite]

CPP Garbage

 

[65PlymSatellite]

More CPP Crap????

 

[Lionized]

Did you perhaps mix brake fluids (add DOT5 to DOT3)?

 

[Frank Mopar]

I would start by adjusting you rear brakes up tight, bleed them and adjust them properly. Do that first.

 

[65PlymSatellite]

Did you perhaps mix brake fluids (add DOT5 to DOT3)?

Always made sure to have plenty of DOT 3 on hand. Never bought anything else.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Is the pushrod inserted into the master with the rubber,,,,,guess I'll call it grommet???Are you 4 wheel brakes??

 

[65PlymSatellite]

I would start by adjusting you rear brakes up tight, bleed them and adjust them properly. Do that first.

I checked them last time I bled the system (last weekend) and they seemed right. Didn'y specify, but still have factory drums in rear. Was wondering if I might need a Residual pressure valve.

 

[65PlymSatellite]

Is the pushrod inserted into the master with the rubber,,,,,guess I'll call it grommet???Are you 4 wheel brakes??

No, no Rubber Grommet. Just pushrod from booster in master cylinder. Even got one of those PushRod tools to accurately set the gap.

Factory drums in rear.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

The pushrod is supposed to be held in the master,if not there is a chance the pushrod can fall out of the master and jam leaving NO BRAKES!

Not sure if you can bleed properly without the PR held in the master.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Petal feel or travel is in properly adjusted rear brakes. If the petal feels spongy reblead the brakes as air in the lines produces that feel. Bleed the brakes lines in this order: RR, LR, RF, LF. Hope this helps solve your problem. You mentioned a residual valve. If the new master cylinder has one you will need compatible rear wheel cylinders.

 

[miller]

Factory drums in rear.

Okay. What's up front, disc or drum? If disc up front, next question is...is that MC made for disc/drum?

Last dumb question...are those flex lines off the MC???

 

[FrnkNsteen]

Is there a check valve in the vacuum line to the booster. Only reason I ask is I recently had a sinking brake pedal on my '71 Chev C10. As I was stopped, the pedal would slowly sink to the floor. I was told to replace the check-valve as I was likely loosing vacuum.

Don't know if that is accurate, but it is what I was told. Haven't done it yet since it's winter and I'm not driving the truck.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

You're getting a lot of different responses. I like the idea of re-bleeding and adjusting the rear brakes first. I believe you have a little "pin" that sticks up out of your proportioning valve when you push the brakes. That "pin" should be held up/out while you bleed the rear brakes. To adjust the rear brakes, I believe you drive the car in reverse pretty quickly (maybe 10mph), hit the brakes hard & repeat. That should "self adjust" the rear brakes after doing it 4-5 times.

 

[kiwigtx]

Did you bench-bleed the Master cylinder prior to starting on anything else?

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Did you bench-bleed the Master cylinder prior to starting on anything else?

Good point

 

[65PlymSatellite]

Petal feel or travel is in properly adjusted rear brakes. If the petal feels spongy reblead the brakes as air in the lines produces that feel. Bleed the brakes lines in this order: RR, LR, RF, LF. Hope this helps solve your problem. You mentioned a residual valve. If the new master cylinder has one you will need compatible rear wheel cylinders.

I re-bled this weekend, and pedal felt the same. There was no air in the system.

 

[65PlymSatellite]

Did you bench-bleed the Master cylinder prior to starting on anything else?

Good point

Yes, properly bled all the air out of Master Cylinder, then bled at the wheels.

 

[65PlymSatellite]

Okay. What's up front, disc or drum? If disc up front, next question is...is that MC made for disc/drum?

Last dumb question...are those flex lines off the MC???

Discs up Front, factory drums in rear. Yes, Willwood recommended i use that master cylinder when I called.

Yes, but I just changed those flex lines to hard lines.