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Who Killed The Electric Car?

Bruzilla

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I just saw this documentary film Who Killed The Electric Car? on Encore this morning and found it to be an interesting view of the automotive industry. The movie deals with the GM EV-1 electric vehicle and other electric vehicles that were produced as a result of California's mandate that 10% of vehicles sold by 2004 or so had to be emission-free designs. Once you weeded through all the greener/anti oil industry propaganda of the film it offered some great insight into how cars are made, marketed and sold, or not sold, that makes for some good information for all of us.

The contention of the film was these cars had huge sales potential but GM was too stubborn, too rearward thinking, too addicted to gasoline, too averse to change, and too influenced by Big Oil to effectively promote the vehicles and allow them to reach their full sales potential. One of the few critics of these views in the film made the comment "GM would sell a car that ran on pig **** if people would buy it" was, I think, about the only fully-truthful statement in the film.

Much of the film's focus was on a woman who was a sales person for the EV-1 in the Los Angeles area. Unlike normal sales people who react to customer needs, she was specially trained to proactively seek customers out, mainly high-visibility actors, progressive politicians, corporate executives, environmental activist leaders, etc., who would all be willing to endorse the car just by buying it, and in her view she was very successful. She had waiting lists of people waiting to get the EV-1 and she couldn't get enough cars to meet the demand from these people. What I thought should have been pointed out was all these people she was selling to were all people who were extremely unlikely to have one car. Yes, Tom Hanks or Mel Gibson (two of her customers) might be able to make great use of an EV-1 for the occasional trip to a studio or meeting in an LA office, but you can bet your *** they have several gas vehicles and access to car services to cover trips where the EV-1 wouldn't meet his needs. How many average Americans share those capabilities? Also, having a waiting list of even 1,000 buyers sounds great until you consider a maker needs to sell hundreds of thousands of cars to be profitable. If they need that sale rep to move 20,000 cars, that 1,000 car waiting list ain't so impressive.

One of the biggest points the film tried to make was that the limited range of the EV-1, about 80 miles a charge, met the needs of 80% or so of drivers so fears of potential owners not having the range they needed were unfounded. As anyone who has been in the automotive business knows, buying decisions are driven by "what is's" and "what ifs". The what is's are the declarative statements of what a car and a seller can do for the customer, and the what if's are the scenarios the customer comes up with that deviate from the what is's, and car people know the what if's are far more heavily weighted than the what is's. For example, a dealer can promote a lifetime-service guarantee for every car it sells that'll cover 99% of a customer's needs, but if the customer asks "What if I'm on a trip to my brother Bob's house in the next state and my car needs service? Does this plan pay for that or is this deal only good here?" If the answer is no, it doesn't matter if the program meets 99% of their needs because that 1% is so heavily weighted that it often kills the whole deal. So for mileage, yes, the average owner may only drive say 60 miles a day and the "what is" range of 80 miles a day meets that need, but then the "what if I take my co-workers to lunch, and that adds 14 miles to my drive?", or "what if I have to make a trip to pick up a sick child at school and take them home or to the doctor?", or "what if I want to come home from work and go out for dinner?" issues come up and suddenly people are faced with the prospect of limiting how they live their lives to finding a way to never go more than 80 miles a day, and it doesn't matter that they may rarely only drive more than 80 miles a few times... the what if trumps the what is.

On a related note, they pointed out how 80% of Americans live in urban and suburban areas with fairly short commutes every day, but failed to take into account that travel isn't limited to intra-urban area drivers but also inter-area drivers, and while an urban area might have recharge stations where drivers could make pit stops, what about when they are driving through rural areas between urban areas? Folks living in these areas won't buy electric vehicles because they are part of the 20% who can't use them, so who's going to make the investment in building and maintaining electric service points?

What I also thought was very telling was while they spent a lot of time discussing advances in battery technology that would increase ranges, they totally avoided any mention of the issues with battery disposal. Didn't even hint at it, which tells me that is a subject they want to avoid at all costs as it counters all their pro-environment arguments.

The last point I found interesting was the supporters were upset because GM's research showed that for every 1,000 interested buyers, once all the negatives associated with the car were pointed out to them, only 50 said they would still buy the car. The supporters were furious about this finding because in their minds cars are sold by emphasizing the positives of a car and not placing a focus on the negatives. I found this highly ironic given GM's current legal issues over selling cars with faulty ignition systems. "The Cobalt looks great, gets awesome mileage, offers cutting edge performance and styling at an industry-leading price... just don't worry about the ignition cutting off and making you get dead in a fatal accident." What they took to be GM caving to Big Oil or suffering from lack of vision, I took to be GM seeing a car with a lot of negatives and knowing if these cars were sold to the general public it wouldn't be long before they were bringing them back for refunds, filing lawsuits, etc., and they would never recover the losses they would suffer.

So the point of the film was people would line up to buy these electric vehicles if only they had been properly marketed, and GM had been better visionaries, and California hadn't caved to pressure from the auto makers and rescinded the requirement for non-emission cars, and if the Republicans and Big Oil hadn't been talking down the technology. But given the fact that hybrids, which do a much better job of meeting consumer needs than electric vehicles, have seen their sales flourish far beyond what electric vehicles have, I would say the only opinion offered in the film that has proven over time to be correct was the "GM would sell a car that ran on pig **** if people would buy it" one. :)
 
Saw it too a while ago. Makes some thought provoking points if I remember correctly, and my conclusion was similar to yours.

An even truer statement based on recent history, I believe, would be...
"GM would sell pig **** and call it a car if people would buy it".
 
I DO KNOW, in the 1930s...General Motors KILLED the "Electric Bus" transportation system in favor of Diesel engines in Bus transit systems.
 
If they can't profit big time, they will not produce it,
if the public isn't willing to buy in masses it will be doomed...

for now
 
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I saw it as well. The one thing that I didn't understand was why GM would not let the people BUY the cars, only lease. And when the lease was up not let them buy or keep the car. That was made plain but never really explained.
And to have them all crushed ... something was going on that again, was never explained. Were they defective - that never stopped GM from cranking out cars before.
The entire documentary was just weird in that it raised more questions than it answered. There was definately an agenda somewhere.
 
I remember the electric trolleys from when I was growing up in Pittsburgh. I also remember having to stand around for hours waiting for trolleys that couldn't make it because their power supplies had blown, or someone had an accident and damaged a cable terminal. And I remember having to walk because the trolley I was on failed.

When you add these problems to the logistics nightmare of running service cables out to the suburbs, and maintaining them, I think it's a bit if a stretch to say GM killed electric buses. These were great for in-city use, but as populations emigrated out to the suburbs, they quickly because unfeasible.
 
Dunno who killed it, but I know these guys hold it back:

2mct1yf.jpg
 
I saw it as well. The one thing that I didn't understand was why GM would not let the people BUY the cars, only lease. And when the lease was up not let them buy or keep the car. That was made plain but never really explained.
And to have them all crushed ... something was going on that again, was never explained. Were they defective - that never stopped GM from cranking out cars before.
The entire documentary was just weird in that it raised more questions than it answered. There was definately an agenda somewhere.

I think the reason why they refused to sell the cars was a liability issue with the batteries. Remember that at this time the norm for a vehicle warranty was five years/50,000 miles, but there's no way the batteries were going to last that long. Batteries are the biggest point of failure on these cars and the most expensive fix, so what would happen if you sell cars with a 5/50 warranty and in the fifth year the batteries either fail or lose enough capacity to no longer be effective?

I'm guessing their research showed the max useable service life was three years, so the best business move would be to lease the cars for three years, bring them back in and replace the batteries, and then release for another three. Selling them outright would run the risk of having lots of owners showing up wanting warranty work, or worse demanding GM replace the batteries at their cost once they failed shortly after the warranty expired.
 
Celebrities were the biggest whiners IIRC, it's like they had their eco-activist/ata boy points & badges taken away....
 
Not trying to defend GM but you have to take in to account that those cars were limited production, and were leased to those people[hence GM still owned them]. The market for them was not strong enough and GM did not want to spend money to provide upkeep and maintenance on so few number of cars. They belonged to GM and they could do whatever they wanted to them. Remember they showed that survivor car was not driveable as not to get a lawsuit if it got into an accident.
 
I think the reason why they refused to sell the cars was a liability issue with the batteries.

I have to be a little vague here or the black helicopters will be over my house tonight. We recently purchased the physical assets of a near bankrupt company that was contracted to build, let's say 100, "electric urban small package delivery vehicles" through a Government/corporate program. (in THAT order.) They got about 90 of them done and discovered that they wouldn't perform the necessary function originally intended. End of program.

Before the asset purchase, A group of us walked the facilities and the complex to assess to value and there were 8 of these vehicles parked along one of the back fences. after finding out what they were, (odd looking things) I went out and checked them out. Sure enough, "electric powered small package delivery units."

So Fast forward; deal closes, we take possession of the the property, I go back to start laying out the new facility and ALL of the equipment is gone along with the package cars. I later asked the CEO of our parent company what happened to the "electric trucks"... They were all recalled and destroyed". "not salvaged, destroyed". "Why"? "The government didn't want the liability for the battery set-up".

My antidotal story...
 
Gm, Goodyear, Firestone, oil companies, steel, etc, etc, invest a lot of money into each other, regardless of safety, they won't produce anything that could potentially dent their pocketbook, and I'm not talking immediately, but long term down the road, you can bet there were bean counters telling them not no but hell no when it came to producing them, the same bean counters and investors that determine whether a lawsuit or a recall is the better route when they have vehicle issues, only as of late they've been forced to deal with safety issues in lieu of letting them go and dealing with the lawsuit, thanks mostly to the new technological age of all the media bringing problems more into light, before, you'd be lucky to hear about anything needing recalled if it didn't make the news. Always boils down to money or the future perception of it.
 
And produce an ugly car and only ugly people will buy them........NO I WON'T!!! No body wanted one....did they? Wouldn't mind having a Tesla today. Those ain't a bad looking car and they seem to run pretty too. Prius? Another ugly looking pile but I hear those run pretty good to. Had one surprise me not too long ago when they almost kept up with my V6 Dakota which runs a 16.60 or used to. That ain't that fast but it's not exactly a snail either.
 
Who cares as long as they were killed. They get charged at smoke stack powered power sources. Gross polluters. Lib and Greenie feel good therapy.
 
Remember they showed that survivor car was not drivable as not to get a lawsuit if it got into an accident.
The survivor car that sat in that garage was let to survive with the understanding that it be permanently disabled.
How permanent I don't know ... but I agree on one thing, it was ugly!
 
Celebrities are the only ones that can afford to be green.
 
Tesla is supposed to be building a $5 Billion dollar "gigaFactory" to produce Li batteries and $30,000? electric cars.
Just google tesla or gigfactory.
 
I didn't see this show but I really don't think anyone killed electric cars I think its a situation where technology has not advanced enough !! Battery tech has to advance a hell of a lot further then just lithium !!:3gears:
 
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