Will the 505 cause stronger earthquakes than Pop's 440?

[IQ52]

There has been a swarm of earthquakes here in Challis, ID and supposedly the epicenter is near a small shop off Round Valley Road. The geologists have been pounding on the door today and we still have to dyno the 505 soon. If there is a volcano I suppose we'll get the blame for that!

 

[robinsonwr]

IQ52,
I am very interested to know what components and parts are being used in the 505 build? It may be comparable to my pump gas 512 build. My engine combination is a 440/512 with the following parts:
Block: 1971 nonhp .060 overbore
Crank: Eagle 4.25 stroke (2.20 rod journals)
Rods: Eagle 7.1 h-beam (.990 pin)
Pistons: SRP
Compression: 10.5-11:1
Balancer: Professional Products 90013
Intake: Indy 4150 dual plane
Water Pump: (Housing)MP Performance Aluminum, (Pump) Milodon Aluminum
Oil Pan: Moroso 7 quart with pick up
Heads: 440 Source Stealth (929-16 springs, 741-16 retainers, 611-16 locks), ported 290cfm @ 600.
Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers. GRIND #: CRB3 3194 /3196 HR111.
Rocker Arms: Crane Cams Gold 1.6 (MP rocker hold downs)
lifters: Comp Cam 8921-16
Push Rods: Smith Bros. Custom
Carb: 950 CFM holley
Exhaust: 1968 HP Manifolds or Hooker 2" primary's

 

[IQ52]

They are fairly close. This one will have the same compression with a bigger Comp Cams custom hydraulic roller, ported RPM heads 305 cfm @ .600", Crane springs and hydraulic roller lifters, Edelbrock Torker II intake. We're using as much of the owner's old parts from his 440 as we can and still get a quality build. The oil pump put out good pressure during yesterdays pre-oiling but didn't feel right, so I may have to change it depending upon what I find when I take it apart (again) today. It looked and measured good but it isn't as smooth as it should be.

 

[robinsonwr]

That is great to here. I cannot wait for the data to come in. Yes, my camshaft is fairly small on the duration side. I decided to stay under 240 duration because of the EZ EFI and street manners. Plus I think the 3:23 gears are great for the street. I will be tuned in waiting, thanks IQ52.

 

[451Mopar]

Sounds alot like my 505 stroker. Mild ported Stealth heads, around 290 cfm, 10.3:1 compression, comp XR286-10 Hydraulic roller, 1.6:1 Harlan Sharpe rockers, smith brothers 5/16" pushrods (0.083 wall), TTI 1-7/8" headers 2.5 "X" exhaust with massive Walker Quiet Flow mufflers. I ran it last year with a performer RPM and Holley 770 cfm carb, but I am installing the Edelbrock Pro-Flow XT EFI on the car. One reason for the XT is it actually sits lower than the RPM/Holley/airFilter so I can run a flat hood.
After messing with welding a sump onto a reproduction gas tank and messing with the plumbing, I think it would have be better to get a custom stainless fuel tank with an internal fuel pump, although that would have been alot more $$$$.

 

[Budnicks]

They are fairly close. This one will have the same compression with a bigger Comp Cams custom hydraulic roller, ported RPM heads 305 cfm @ .600", Crane springs and hydraulic roller lifters, Edelbrock Torker II intake. We're using as much of the owner's old parts from his 440 as we can and still get a quality build. The oil pump put out good pressure during yesterdays pre-oiling but didn't feel right, so I may have to change it depending upon what I find when I take it apart (again) today. It looked and measured good but it isn't as smooth as it should be.

Any more details & updates yet.... sounds interesting

 

[IQ52]

Fired it two days ago. Cleaned out the closed system supplying water to the absorber on the dyno before we loaded the 505 on. Thought we'd add some antifreeze to the absorber water to prevent some corrosion in the system. BIG MISTAKE. The antifreeze caused the water to foam in the absorber. So we're flushing the system and refilling without additives. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

 

[robinsonwr]

Fired it two days ago. Cleaned out the closed system supplying water to the absorber on the dyno before we loaded the 505 on. Thought we'd add some antifreeze to the absorber water to prevent some corrosion in the system. BIG MISTAKE. The antifreeze caused the water to foam in the absorber. So we're flushing the system and refilling without additives. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

IQ52,
I hope all goes well and your back on your game tomorrow. The information you bring to the table is extremely valuable to us novist and even the experienced Mopar fanatics, thanks.

 

[IQ52]

No volcanos, it's pretty mellow as it should be for a street driven Challenger.

This is the test with the 950cfm Quick Fuel, RPM Performer intake, tweaked RPM heads with stock valves, 10.4:1, custom hydraulic roller (I really don't like hydraulic rollers).

RPM...........TQ...........HP

3000........539.........308
3100........544.........321
3200........568.........346
3300........586.........368
3400........599.........388
3500........602.........401
3600........609.........418
3700........605.........426
3800........611.........442
3900........607.........451
4000........605.........461
4100........604.........472
4200........595.........476
4300........597.........489
4400........596.........499
4500........596.........511
4600........598.........524
4700........598.........535
4800........594.........543
4900........594.........554
5000........593.........565
5100........594.........577
5200........589.........583
5300........588.........594
5400........574.........591
5500........570.........597
5600........556.........593
5700........548.........595
5800........535.........590

Can't believe that I'm disappointed in an engine that makes almost 600 LB-FT from 3400-5100 RPM, but I am.

 

[Jeremiah]

(I really don't like hydraulic rollers).

Can you expand on this?

I'd like to see what it does with a single plane intake, 2" headers and a larger carburetor. Do you have a 1050, 4150 style main body? I have the QF down leg version loose if you want to try it. I also have a annular style main body in the same box...

 

[IQ52]

Can you expand on this?

I'd like to see what it does with a single plane intake, 2" headers and a larger carburetor. Do you have a 1050, 4150 style main body? I have the QF down leg version loose if you want to try it. I also have a annular style main body in the same box...

I've had such great success with solid cams and the hydraulics just seem to leave the power someplace I can't find.

Here is the customer's Torker II single plane and his 750 cfm Holley and the 750 on the RPM performer

RPM...........TRKR II/750................RPM/750

3000.........531.........298...........538.......307
3100.........521.........308...........542.......320
3200.........532.........324...........554.......338
3300.........550.........346...........568.......357
3400.........571.........369...........599.......388
3500.........577.........384...........598.......399
3600.........578.........396...........597.......410
3700.........583.........411...........600.......423
3800.........579.........419...........600.......434
3900.........581.........432...........600.......446
4000.........580.........442...........599.......456
4100.........583.........455...........595.......465
4200.........582.........465...........589.......471
4300.........587.........481...........589.......482
4400.........586.........491...........584.......489
4500.........590.........505...........588.......504
4600.........600.........525...........592.......518
4700.........599.........536...........592.......530
4800.........600.........548...........586.......536
4900.........597.........557...........587.......547
5000.........592.........564...........589.......560
5100.........591.........574...........584.......567
5200.........586.........580...........582.......577
5300.........581.........586...........573.......578
5400.........566.........582...........566.......582
5500.........559.........585...........556.......583
5600.........552.........589...........545.......581
5700.........538.........584...........537.......583
5800.........537.........593...........526.......581

Notice the RPM Performer gave us a torque peak 1000 rpm lower in the rpm range.

There is an Edelbrock Victor and 1025 Race Demon lurking in the shadows.

 

[Rocketman]

IQ52,
I am very interested to know what components and parts are being used in the 505 build? It may be comparable to my pump gas 512 build. My engine combination is a 440/512 with the following parts:
Block: 1971 nonhp .060 overbore
Crank: Eagle 4.25 stroke (2.20 rod journals)
Rods: Eagle 7.1 h-beam (.990 pin)
Pistons: SRP
Compression: 10.5-11:1
Balancer: Professional Products 90013
Intake: Indy 4150 dual plane
Water Pump: (Housing)MP Performance Aluminum, (Pump) Milodon Aluminum
Oil Pan: Moroso 7 quart with pick up
Heads: 440 Source Stealth (929-16 springs, 741-16 retainers, 611-16 locks), ported 290cfm @ 600.
Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers. GRIND #: CRB3 3194 /3196 HR111.
Rocker Arms: Crane Cams Gold 1.6 (MP rocker hold downs)
lifters: Comp Cam 8921-16
Push Rods: Smith Bros. Custom
Carb: 950 CFM holley
Exhaust: 1968 HP Manifolds or Hooker 2" primary's

how about a you tube at idle?

 

[rumblefish360]

IQ, could you post the cam specs?

 

[Budnicks]

IQ52 haven't read this in a while, great combo, seem the hydraulic roller, is not making power like your solid rollers will, still freaken' nice #'s... 611ftlbs @ 3800 rpm, torque monster street combo, cruising speeds/rpms, useable power...

- - - Updated - - -

No volcanos, it's pretty mellow as it should be for a street driven Challenger.

This is the test with the 950cfm Quick Fuel, RPM Performer intake, tweaked RPM heads with stock valves, 10.4:1, custom hydraulic roller (I really don't like hydraulic rollers).

RPM...........TQ...........HP

3000........539.........308
3100........544.........321
3200........568.........346
3300........586.........368
3400........599.........388
3500........602.........401
3600........609.........418
3700........605.........426
3800........611.........442
3900........607.........451
4000........605.........461
4100........604.........472
4200........595.........476
4300........597.........489
4400........596.........499
4500........596.........511
4600........598.........524
4700........598.........535
4800........594.........543
4900........594.........554
5000........593.........565
5100........594.........577
5200........589.........583
5300........588.........594
5400........574.........591
5500........570.........597
5600........556.........593
5700........548.........595
5800........535.........590

Can't believe that I'm disappointed in an engine that makes almost 600 LB-FT from 3400-5100 RPM, but I am.

... not to leave out the 597 hp @ 5500 rpm, hyd. roller camshaft... what cam specs ??

 

[IQ52]

I'm remaining mum on cam specs for the time being. Custom grind you see. Didn't like some things we saw on the dyno, hot oil pressure at idle for one thing, and the engine is spread all over the shop right now, going back over every little detail. Trust everbody, verify everything.

 

[Budnicks]

I'm remaining mum on cam specs for the time being. Custom grind you see. Didn't like some things we saw on the dyno, hot oil pressure at idle for one thing, and the engine is spread all over the shop right now, going back over every little detail. Trust everbody, verify everything.

OK I understand, thanks for the response, keep us updated, always interested

 

[IQ52]

Fixed the low oil pressure (long story), fixed the excessive oil flowing by the rocker arms (had full groove around #4 cam journal), fixed the horrible blow-by at rpm (incorrect gap on 2nd compression ring) and fixed the hydraulic roller lifter bleed down (installed solid rollers). We went back to the customers Torker II and 750 cfm Holley, still of course 91 octane, and made two back-to-back dyno pulls.

RPM...........TQ/HP.............TQ/HP

3000........518/296..........513/293
3100........532/314..........523/308
3200........548/334..........534/325
3300........577/362..........565/355
3400........590/382..........585/379
3500........595/397..........596/397
3600........602/413..........597/409
3700........598/421..........599/422
3800........603/436..........599/433
3900........602/447..........602/447
4000........605/461..........609/464
4100........607/474..........613/479
4200........608/486..........608/486
4300........607/497..........607/497
4400........608/509..........610/511
4500........611/523..........610/523
4600........613/537..........613/537
4700........616/552..........620/555
4800........624/571..........619/565
4900........626/584..........622/580
5000........621/591..........621/591
5100........620/602..........620/602
5200........619/612..........617/611
5300........617/622..........614/620
5400........610/627..........613/630
5500........606/634..........602/630
5600........601/640..........595/635
5700........588/638..........592/643
5800........586/647..........578/638
5900........579/650..........573/643
6000........564/644..........574/654

Now we are ready to dyno the 446 and the 496 the first part of next week.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Power fall off a cliff past 6k?

 

[IQ52]

Hah! Not at all, cylinder heads, cylinder heads, cylinder heads! Before we switched to the solid lifters and some additional tuning we pulled the hydraulic lifters to 6300.

Horsepower from 5200-6300 with hydraulic roller lifters.

5200..........603
5300..........608
5400..........610
5500..........620
5600..........619
5700..........624
5800..........623
5900..........626
6000..........632
6100..........628
6200..........627
6300..........622

Even while following Crane's instructions to the letter (many phone calls), after every run the hydraulic lifters were rattling like crazy on pulls as low as 5200 rpm. So...........we switched to the solids. Never felt we needed to test again beyond 6000 as we are making more power than we need for a street driven '72 Challenger.