"You need to do the whole front end."

[signalsparks]

1970 Satellite 4 door 318/2bbl/904. Factory Air and P/S. Manual drums. Stock all around, in/out.

I took it in to a local mechanic that has a reputation of being a wizard at adjusting carbueretors, since mine just wasn't dialed in very well. I asked him to have a look at the front brake adjustment since I neglected to adjust them on my last inspection/bearing re-pack. He said he put 'er up on the lift and noticed that I had "quite a bit" of wheel movement (caster) and was able to tighten things up a bit, but basically told me "The whole front end looks original; you should probably re-do the whole thing."

I asked for a list of what should be done, and he started asking for another hour of labor to come up with a list. He's quite obviously a Chivvy guy ("I like coil springs better; I've seen torsion bars break."). I doubt I'll be going back to him, even though he's conveniently close.

Thanks for reading this far. I'm assuming I should do a full set of bushings. Steering feels pretty solid, even at 65-70 mph it's pretty precise, and I thought the handling was pretty good all things considered, but there are rattles and clunks from the front end over bumps, etc.

Has anyone done front-end service recently on their comparable machine that's willing to tap out a list of what I should take a look at, what I should replace regardless of how it looks based on age, and what special tools I might need?

While I'm an idiot with carbueretors, I'm competent at electrical, engine, cooling, brakes, etc. and I have done front-end work on several vehicles (a 1991 Nissan Sentra and a 1994 Dodge Dakota 2WD) in the past. I know I'll have to have it aligned after...

Thanks in advance!

 

[R413]

Do it all! That’s because he doesn’t know how it works or how to spot the problem.

Usually there is one or two bad parts that are causing the whole problem. But a 50 year old car could have everything getting old and loose.
I’d find a mopar suspension guy to look it over.

How did he “tighten things up a bit”. Very good choice not going back the the coil spring guy.

 

[66 Sat]

Have a look at PST or Dr Diff, they sell whole front end kits. The mechanic is covering his butt, but is telling mostly the truth, if it's all original it's likely to be all toast. I'd say your looking at upper and lower control arm bushings, pitman and idler arm, tie rod ends (ball joints), strut rod bushings.
It will make a huge difference to how the car drives.

 

[threewood]

Lift it up and inspect for yourself. Make sure wheel bearing are adjusted correctly. If they aren't you will get wobble.

Once up, grab tire at 9 and 3 o'clock and push pull. Movement here will be tie rod ends / pitman arm.

Grab tire at 12 and 6 o'clock and push pull. This will show condition of upper/lower ball joints.

Fore /aft movement can be strut rod bushings or LCA bushings.

 

[MoparLeo]

It is a good idea to do a complete service. It will only do you and your car good. You will then know for yourself the age and condition of everything and can upgrade components if you want with no extra labor. Follow the FSM recommendations on component inspections so you know how and why it was done. Torsion bars have the advantage of easy height adjustments and replacement, but don't sell cooil springs short. Virtually every car on the road uses them including probably the one you drive now. Coils are not a bad thing, just another option.

 

[beanhead]

If you're still riding on 50-year-old rubber...I would do it all if you have to do anything. I'll second what 66Sat said....look into a full rebuild kit from PST. They used to run around $300-$400 for the whole sha-bang, but I have no idea what a shop would charge on top of that if you weren't comfortable doing it yourself. I did my first solo front-end rebuild back in about 2001 or so with PST's full poly-graphite kit and a Steve Dulcich how-to article and it came out great. I already had the engine out, so it was easy enough to drop the K-frame and do the rebuild on the garage floor but you don't need to do it that way. I've done several since and have done them with the engine and K still in the car.

 

[Bb70charger500]

I believe my front end rebuild kit fits your year I'll take a look it's brand new I got ride of car and don't need it . I'll knock a little off retail so you save a bit and I get it out of my way

 

[R413]

We don’t really have enough information yet. What Exactly is the front end problem. What are the plans and budget for the car? Maybe a complete rebuild is not in the budget. What kinds of driving are you looking to do? Run to the Corner store or Cruise at 80 down the freeway?

Finding and replacing the actual bad parts and a correct alignment can make it drive good again.

remember that youngster on here Last spring with a 70 coronet with all the front end trouble? We finally got out of him that the car was lowered onto the bump stops with rubber band tires and he couldn’t understand why it wouldn’t drive worth a hoot. Then he vanished.

we need the whole story.

 

[Bb70charger500]

Bad front end parts are bad front end parts!
It isn't safe to run on bad parts if one thing is bad I will say the rest is very near to the same date!
The parts are cheap enough your in there doing one thing you might as well do the rest! Now all that being said I doubt any car made it all these years with out getting some kind of repair work done . I would look myself give a good shake down a wheel bearing might be loose .witch is a 5 min fix !
I don't believe anything a "mechanic" says as I was one and the boss's always pushed to sell stuff people didn't need . I finally stopped working in those shoos and went into a private company and started maintaining a fleet

I couldn't honestly tell these people that there car needed $4000 worth if work when all the needed was a oil pan drain plug gasket!
People lie that's how they get rich

 

[R413]

I doubt many cars have every original front end part on it 50 years. Later. But there are some no doubt.

I’m saying keep your eyes open and LOOK at the car. It will tell you what’s wrong. But it needs to be someone savvy and with suspension experience.

I went to a 2 year auto program at Voc-tec then worked in dealers and private shops for 15 years.
Bring it over I’ll look at it! But it’s a 2000 mile round trip for the guy to do that.

I bought one mopar that the front end was horrible, drove bad and was dangerous. One of the worst driving cars ever. Found a previous owner who Said he delivered papers on a gravel road every day for a summer. All the rubber was shot to almost gone, but the 60K was true and every mechanical joint with grease was just fine. Car drive like a million bucks today with original joints and tie rods with only The rubber replaced.


So you can’t sit here and tell me every car needs everything replaced. You’ve been there too, bosses say SELL SELL SELL! It a BS game. Guys doing brake jobs with half lining left. LOOK at the damn thing first.

A shop has to warranty that car also, so to save time and cover his butt he says do it all. I know that side also.

how about the guy posted his alignment settings and asked where it should be set, this was after he paid them to align it, it’s all out of whack, the guy must have never read anything about alignments before, it was bad.
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...ns-to-prevent-tracking.203336/#post-911683427

 

[beanhead]

I bought one mopar that the front end was horrible, drove bad and was dangerous. One of the worst driving cars ever. Found a previous owner who Said he delivered papers on a gravel road every day for a summer. All the rubber was shot to almost gone, but the 60K was true and every mechanical joint with grease was just fine. Car drive like a million bucks today with original joints and tie rods with only The rubber replaced.

Sounds like my '68 when I first got it! Nothing like metal-to-metal in the suspension going over every bump in the road.

But R413 makes a good point....is there a singular problem that needs fixing? It may well be more prudent to fix that and keep on trucking.

 

[signalsparks]

I believe my front end rebuild kit fits your year I'll take a look it's brand new I got ride of car and don't need it . I'll knock a little off retail so you save a bit and I get it out of my way

PM me...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

1970

I asked him to have a look at the front brake adjustment since I neglected to adjust them on my last inspection/bearing re-pack. He said he put 'er up on the lift and noticed that I had "quite a bit" of wheel movement (caster) and was able to tighten things up a bit, but basically told me "The whole front end looks original; you should probably re-do the whole thing."

I asked for a list of what should be done, and he started asking for another hour of labor to come up with a list.

Caster & wheel movement are completely different things... Caster is hard to verify without putting gauges on the car....

Particularly when your only thing about a couple degrees at the most....

Back in the 80's Mercedes was using 18+ degrees of caster, that you could see but 1-2 degrees not likely... And again it has nothing to do with wheel movement...

You need to have someone who knows vintage Mopar front ends...

Thing is the lower control arm bushings are typically shot, often they get oil leaking on them along with the fact that most mechanics avoid touched them cause they are "challenging" compared to GM & Ford coil spring style suspensions...

If your going after the lower control arm bushings most of the suspension is coming apart so at that point do you want to reinstall old components... I often do but you need to evaluate the condition accurately, if you can't do that you might as well plan to replace known high wear parts....

That would include all the rubber bushings, The lower ball joints, likely the idler arm... Possibly tie rod ends...

If I were doing it I would definitely use offset upper control arm bushing to allow more caster... 3+ degrees is helpful...

 

[signalsparks]

yeah this was just wheel movement, I used the term caster to indicate forward/backward instead of camber/toe-in.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

yeah this was just wheel movement, I used the term caster to indicate forward/backward instead of camber/toe-in.

Forward & back is probably a bad strut rod bushing....

 

[MoparLeo]

Really the only negative to rebuilding a 50 year old front end would possibly be your budget. What is the harm of having all new, current production parts on the most complicated part of the vehicles' suspension system ? Also new shock absorbers. This is a once in a normal lifetime vehicle safety/performance upgrade. If you must, just wait until you save up the money to do a complete job. It is money invested in your Mopar. Again, follow the FSM to learn to properly check components condition.

 

[Don Frelier]

Probably safe to say all the rubber parts are due for replacement. (bushings, bump stops, isolators)
The other "hard" stuff like tie rod ends, ball joints etc... really depends on how it was maintained and how much use.

 

[dvw]

All the bushings for sure. Upper arm, lower arm, strut bushings. Bump stop are rubber as well. More than likely the lower ball joints and possibly the idler arm. The upper ball joints, tie rod ends, and pitman arm are usually ok but should be checked. K frame should be checked for cracks. Arms, strut rods should be inspected for bends. The steering couple and steering box may be worn as well.
It’s a lot of physical work. But for sure something that someone with average skill can do. You may have to get someone to press the control arm bushing for you. It takes a special socket to remove the upper ball joints.
Doug

 

[cosgig]

I remember when we bought Nellas car, the owner told us we should not drive it, it was a death trap, there’s something wrong with the front end. Put it up and got under it, everything was nice and tight, no problems. Then it came to me, even tho he was the original owner, he hadn’t driven it in so long, and he was so used to newer cars and their completely different suspensions, that he forgot all about how these cars used to handle. Not saying that this is your case, and I agree with the above posts about buying the whole kit and doing it yourself, but be cognizant that most of the kits don’t come with every piece needed. One from PST I believe doesn’t come with the inner tie rods and Alsace’s for some reason, which are an additional $54 apiece .

 

[Rusty 72]

On my cars I always redo the front suspension/steering components and brakes. Like mentioned above a complete suspension kit is usually less than $500.
I would hate to loose my life or hurt somebody else if I crashed, all over $500.