1964 Wagon Tire Size Help

[matthon]

1964 Fury wagon.
4 wheel drum.
Factory 8 3/4 Sure-Grip rear, tapered axles.
My understanding is 64 is a one year odd/larger width.

Trying to figure out a few things.

It has stock 14" wheels, 10" caps, 225/70/14 tires. How wide are these wheels?

I want to use these 15" wheels:
15x8 4.25 bs
15x5.5 bs doesn't matter

What tires will fit under this thing?

I've had both of these wheels/tires on the back of it:
M/T L60-15 15x8 4.25 bs (giant squared off tires)
Cooper 275/60/15 15x8 4.5 bs (equivalent to the M/Ts but rounded and offset more)

Neither combo fit, tires too big.

Note, both those rear rims/tires fit my 2 door 62 Dart with the stock 62 8 3/4.

 

[Dave6T4]

'62-'63 and '66-'67 rear ends are narrower, allowing for a larger tire. Chrysler used this trick on '64 Super Stock cars; they put the narrower '63 rear end under them.

 

[matthon]

Yes, the difference between my 62 and 64 is 2 3/16".

62 Dart 4' 2"
64 Wagon 4' 4 3/16"
64 Belvedere with a later rear 4' 3 3/16"

Both those wheels/tires fit the back of the 64 Belvedere.
With only an inch difference in the two 64s, I would think a 255, 245, or 235/60 might fit, just not sure how to figure it out.

 

[matthon]

Anyone put a 15" big tire on the back of an original 64 rear, on any model?

 

[33 IMP]

Anyone put a 15" big tire on the back of an original 64 rear, on any model?

I have. I went to fellow poster here, who had a 64 hardtop with stock 8 3/4 tapered axle. I brought my 255/70x15 on 8x15 ramcharger wheel (4 or 4.25 bs , can't remember for sure.
It did not come close to fitting. Let the jack down slowly, the fender sat on
the tire. Looking at the situation, we decided he would need at least 5"bs for an 8"wheel, 5.25 to 5.5 would be better.
The ramcharger wheel fit my 62, but could have used 1/2 more bs, could have used 275, maybe 295 then.

 

[matthon]

would need at least 5"bs for an 8"wheel, 5.25 to 5.5 would be better

Well that's more bs than either wheel I have.

Strange that between my 64 wagon with the stock rear, and 64 2 door with the later rear, the 2 door rear is only 1" shorter yet fits a 275/60/15 no problem.

I was thinking about swapping the rears, as the inner wheelwells measure the same, but just not convinced 1" will make the difference.

Big tire.

 

[moparx]

Well that's more bs than either wheel I have.

Strange that between my 64 wagon with the stock rear, and 64 2 door with the later rear, the 2 door rear is only 1" shorter yet fits a 275/60/15 no problem.

I was thinking about swapping the rears, as the inner wheelwells measure the same, but just not convinced 1" will make the difference.

Big tire.

View attachment 1614330

on my 64 belvedere, i went with a 67 rear, and 275 60's on 15x7 rallye wheels. lots of room, but i also added a spring leaf, gaining 1" more height.

 

[33 IMP]

on my 64 belvedere, i went with a 67 rear, and 275 60's on 15x7 rallye wheels. lots of room, but i also added a spring leaf, gaining 1" more height.

I think a 65-67 rear (I think my 62 has a 65 rear in it) is something like two inches narrower than a 64 ( correct info is on a chart here somewhere).
If so, an inch extra clearance is HUGE in trying to fit big tires.

 

[matthon]

on my 64 belvedere, i went with a 67 rear, and 275 60's on 15x7 rallye wheels. lots of room, but i also added a spring leaf, gaining 1" more height.

Is it a wagon?

I ordered new springs from Espos a few weeks ago, mine are completely shot, and wagon springs have 7 leaves.

 

[matthon]

orrect info is on a chart here somewhere

I am aware of that chart, tried to search but FBBO is clocking big time lately and times out.

I measured the 64 two door later rear at 1" less than the stock 64 wagon rear.
Not sure how I measured that, but I will verify based on that chart.

FBBO still clocking.

 

[matthon]

8 3/4 question

 

[GrabberOrange69]

This is a 65...so what I now understand has a wider 8 3/4. But I have 15x8 TTDs 4.5 BS with 275 60 15s on the back, TTD 15x6s on the front with 205 75 15s. Every now and then it will rub on the rear drivers inside fender making a hard right turn.

 

[matthon]

This is a 65...so what I now understand has a wider 8 3/4.

If the info from the link to the other thread I posted above is correct:
Wider than a 62-63, but not a 64.
If I used a 65-67 I could fit a bigger tire.

I tried 275s on my 64, no way, so it looks like a 65-67 will work.

B BODY
'62-'63= 53 1/4" (And '64 Max Wedge)
'64 = 55 5/8" (Exc. Max Wedge)
'65-'67= 54 1/4"

 

[matthon]

Every now and then it will rub on the rear drivers inside fender making a hard right turn.

So I have both 15x8 with 4.25 bs, and 15x8 with 4.5 bs.

Based on your wagon, maybe the 4.25 bs would work better, or just rub the outside of the inner fender.

 

[33 IMP]

If I have a choice, I always err on the too-much backspace. If it rubs the springs, spacers fix it, if it rubs the fender, nothing can fix it (except a smaller tire). With the wrong backspace on a wide wheel, sometimes the minimum tire for the rim width simply won't fit. I have three pairs of vintage wheels exactly that way. (Of course, it helps if the car has a full round open wheelwell opening....)

 

[matthon]

I might just swap the later rear from the 2 door into the wagon and see if either rim/tire fits.
If the wagon and 2 door wheel wells are the same, either size rim/tire should fit.

64 having a wider rear sucks because the wagon has a factory Sure-Grip, which I already converted to 65 drums.
I also think it's a lower gear, don't want to be screaming rpms in the wagon.

My understanding is the 64 center and later center do not interchange.

I think the later year might be 3.90s.

How do you figure gear ratio without pulling the center?

 

[33 IMP]

I'm not that familiar with the 64 wagons. I DO know the 62 Dodge has a nice open wheel opening compared to a 62 Plymouth sedan, and I know that a 62 ply wagon has a much more open ww than the sedan does.
(I know where there is a nice original 62 bel wagon, sitting on four flat wide whites, that is not for sale.... tho I've tried several times)

 

[33 IMP]

How do you figure gear? If it's a sure grip, it's easy.
Neutral, both rear wheels in the air. Mark position of driveshaft. Turn the tire one full revolution, (both rear wheels turn the same direction)count the turns the driveshaft makes. Almost four turns,3.91s. About three and a half? 3.55s, etc
Open is a bit more complicated. Look up a you tube post.

 

[matthon]

Results:
Wagon Sure-Grip rear 2 3/4 turns = 2:76
2 door Sure-Grip rear 4 1/4 turns = 4:10

Ideal scenario, swap the later housing from the 2 door and used the 2:76 Sure-Grip from the wagon, but my understanding is a Sure-Grip center section from a 64 tapered axle will not swap into a later housing.
If anyone knows different, chime in anytime.

Also, wagons have different shackles?
I just bought new ones while waiting for my springs, who knew, not me.

 

[33 IMP]

If the centers WONT swap, I don't know why. Following.