383 spun main?

[RebelRider]

This is why I don’t like to go down the oils and lubes discussion path.
It’s very hard to change people’s minds on it.

I think you have mistaken my questioning as denial.

I raplaced the 2 bad lifters with a couple of the good original ones. The rear most one is spinning, but the front one is not. The front lobe is clearly flattened, though.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

This reminds me of Dan and how he schooled be on straightening the bore and bushing it for proper geometry.

 

[PRHeads]

You really can’t tell anything useful checking with the lobes that had lifters go bad.
At least I wouldn’t feel that was conclusive of anything.

It has to be done with a good cam and lifters.

Looking at it from the other direction....... if it’s not the oil, or the spring load, or the lifter rotation....... what is it?
Why did the cam & lifters not survive?

If you chalk it up to “**** happens”, does that mean you just get another one of those cams, same lifters, use the same oil...... and hope this time it will go better?

 

[Fran Blacker]

I think you have mistaken my questioning as denial.

I raplaced the 2 bad lifters with a couple of the good original ones. The rear most one is spinning, but the front one is not. The front lobe is clearly flattened, though.

I see one problem used lifters on new cam. MO there isn't a used lifter I'd use on a new cam. New lifters on a good used cam is a different story. After all this on a .060 over engine keep throwing money at it?? Mixing used lifters with new cam is asking for trouble. If have limited funds it can be tempting to do the used lifter thing but that one thing I wouldn't do. Maybe you can get away with it and maybe not.

 

[RebelRider]

You really can’t tell anything useful checking with the lobes that had lifters go bad.
At least I wouldn’t feel that was conclusive of anything.

It has to be done with a good cam and lifters.

Looking at it from the other direction....... if it’s not the oil, or the spring load, or the lifter rotation....... what is it?
Why did the cam & lifters not survive?

If you chalk it up to “**** happens”, does that mean you just get another one of those cams, same lifters, use the same oil...... and hope this time it will go better?

Just hoping it won’t happen again isn’t an option. What would you suggest? Putting the stock springs on this go round and use a break in oil? Reinstall the comps after they are broken in? Just doing some reading, I don’t want to go back with the summit brand lifters. Not blaming them by any means, but have read multiple occasions of their failure rate. Zero complaints on the cams themselves.

 

[RebelRider]

I see one problem used lifters on new cam. MO there isn't a used lifter I'd use on a new cam. New lifters on a good used cam is a different story. After all this on a .060 over engine keep throwing money at it?? Mixing used lifters with new cam is asking for trouble. If have limited funds it can be tempting to do the used lifter thing but that one thing I wouldn't do. Maybe you can get away with it and maybe not.

Installing the used lifter was just to verify other were spinning. It was only temporary.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Hope you get it this time. I used moly-cote G it's a paste brushed on.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I use a solid roller and don't have to deal with all that. Check lash often and catch any possible issues.

 

[PRHeads]

“What I would do”.....
-check lobe taper of new cam before installation. You want .0015-.0020

-Throughly clean lifter bores. Might need a little scotebrite scrub.
With both lifters and lifter bores clean and dry, lifters should fall right through the bores with no drag.

-mock up valvetrain and check for lifter rotation ...... especially in the two holes that failed.
The reason I say “mock up” is because I do this prior to applying any paste type cam lube.
After Ive determined all the lifters rotate, I remove cam and apply the paste type of cam lube, then reinstall.
(If any lifters don’t rotate...... don’t go any further, as the cam won’t survive.

-verify there is adequate retainer to seal clearance for the lift of the cam.

-Lower spring load to under 110 seat/275 open for break in.
Run the motor a lot(several hours/miles)before replacing springs.

-Use genuine Hylift Johnson lifters

-My preference for cam lube is the gray moly paste. Use only on the lobes and bottom of lifters. Sides of lifters get motor oil only.

-use Driven BR break in oil for at least the first 150 Miles.
Then use some sort of zinc infused oil forever. I like the Driven HR series oils.

If you followed all those steps.......and......all the lifters have proper rotation........ you should have a 95% + chance of success.

 

[RebelRider]

Hope you get it this time. I used moly-cote G it's a paste brushed on.

Let’s hope so. Just looking around my area, these BBM’s are harder to find than I thought. I’m trying to keep this one alive.

“What I would do”.....
-check lobe taper of new cam before installation. You want .0015-.0020

-Throughly clean lifter bores. Might need a little scotebrite scrub.
With both lifters and lifter bores clean and dry, lifters should fall right through the bores with no drag.

-mock up valvetrain and check for lifter rotation ...... especially in the two holes that failed.
The reason I say “mock up” is because I do this prior to applying any paste type cam lube.
After Ive determined all the lifters rotate, I remove cam and apply the paste type of cam lube, then reinstall.
(If any lifters don’t rotate...... don’t go any further, as the cam won’t survive.

-verify there is adequate retainer to seal clearance for the lift of the cam.

-Lower spring load to under 110 seat/275 open for break in.
Run the motor a lot(several hours/miles)before replacing springs.

-Use genuine Hylift Johnson lifters

-My preference for cam lube is the gray moly paste. Use only on the lobes and bottom of lifters. Sides of lifters get motor oil only.

-use Driven BR break in oil for at least the first 150 Miles.
Then use some sort of zinc infused oil forever. I like the Driven HR series oils.

If you followed all those steps.......and......all the lifters have proper rotation........ you should have a 95% + chance of success.

Thanks. How much roatation should I see per revolution? Does this mock assembly include pushrods and rockers? Also, how do the cam lobes get oil? Does it over flow out of the valley right onto the lobes? Looking at the cam I pulled, there definitely seems to be an oil issue.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around why this lifted dented. Look how thin the wall is.

 

[wyrmrider]

great tups but I would not use scotchbright on anything that's not going into the hot tank/ parts washer- those carbide bits are death
brush hone or brake hone not much better
but looks like this motor needs a complet tear down and clean
so go for it
if you use a ridgid hone you can see most any out of round problems
just a little to put a cross harch on the surface- you are not trying to remove metal
really sorry about the failure

 

[RebelRider]

great tups but I would not use scotchbright on anything that's not going into the hot tank/ parts washer- those carbide bits are death
brush hone or brake hone not much better
but looks like this motor needs a complet tear down and clean
so go for it
if you use a ridgid hone you can see most any out of round problems
just a little to put a cross harch on the surface- you are not trying to remove metal
really sorry about the failure

Things happen, but also aggravating. It’s definetly been a learning experience.
Today I measured the original valve springs to see if they fell within the range PRheads mentioned for the break-in, which they did. I have started swapping them out. I also slid the cam back in to check the seated/open height, which also fell well within spec. Keeper to seal tolerance was good also. I will next pull the pan and pump for a thorhough cleaning. After that, I will pump some cheap oil throughout the engine to flush everything out. If nothing jumps out as a serious problem, I’ll reinstall the valvetrain and verify the lifters are spinning. If all goes well, I’ll button it back up and run it for a while at 2k+ rpm’s with break-in oil.

 

[PRHeads]

The cam lobes and lifter bottoms are splash oiled from what gets thrown off the cranks rod pins.

My mock up would have the rockers all bolted down.
Since the motor is in the car, you can bump the motor over with the starter to check for lifter rotation.
They don’t usually turn very much for each up/down....... but you’re looking to see that there is positive movement each time.
To watch each lifter cycle a few times requires the motor being turned over numerous times.
All the lubes will end up being wiped off everything during these checks.
That’s why after I check the rotation, I take the valvetrain off and cam/lifters out, properly lube everything for engine start..... then reassemble.

This way you don’t need to check anything cam related prior to start up.
It’s all been prechecked, and then properly lubed afterward.

I agree that lifter seems very very thin.
Usually the trench gets dug way deeper than that before a hole apprears.

 

[RebelRider]

The cam lobes and lifter bottoms are splash oiled from what gets thrown off the cranks rod pins.

My mock up would have the rockers all bolted down.
Since the motor is in the car, you can bump the motor over with the starter to check for lifter rotation.
They don’t usually turn very much for each up/down....... but you’re looking to see that there is positive movement each time.
To watch each lifter cycle a few times requires the motor being turned over numerous times.
All the lubes will end up being wiped off everything during these checks.
That’s why after I check the rotation, I take the valvetrain off and cam/lifters out, properly lube everything for engine start..... then reassemble.

This way you don’t need to check anything cam related prior to start up.
It’s all been prechecked, and then properly lubed afterward.

I agree that lifter seems very very thin.
Usually the trench gets dug way deeper than that before a hole apprears.

Just to make sure I’m understanding correctly, no oil or lube during mock up to verify rotation?

 

[Fran Blacker]

I'd mark each lifter with a marker at 12o'clock then take pictures, enough to see where each started at. Then test for rotation, then compare pictures with what is there.

 

[PRHeads]

Just to make sure I’m understanding correctly, no oil or lube during mock up to verify rotation?

I use motor oil.

The only test I do “dry” is making sure the lifters will fall through the bores with no drag.

 

[Demonic]

After that, I will pump some cheap oil throughout the engine to flush everything out.

No. That will not get it. I hate to bear bad news, but you need to pull the engine, strip the block down fully, and scrub with Dawn or liquid Tide. You'll need bottle brushed for the oil galleys, thick pipe cleaners, etc. I like to fill the water jacket with vinegar or muratic acid or Evaporust. Anything less and you risk fine metal left in the block, and another failure.