4 speed question

[493 Mike]

And by the way, rebuilding a 4 speed with the parts on hand is a piece of cake 2 hour job.

Only if you do not do complete disassembly and washing of ALL components. I have been rebuilding standard and automatic transmissions since 1971 and learned long ago "cleanliness" is absolutely a priority! No different than engines and more so with Ford automatics, a flyspeck will stick a valve spool in a C-4.
Mike

 

[Beekeeper]

And by the way, rebuilding a 4 speed with the parts on hand is a piece of cake 2 hour job.

Yep just done mine two weeks ago.

 

[Beekeeper]

Took longer than 2 hours though if you clean the inside of the case and extension properly that will take two hours in itself.

 

[Beekeeper]

Of course you could easily half *** it in two hours!

 

[dan juhasz]

I think you are on the right track. What I call the syncro sliders/collars are not commonly replaced on a rebuild as part of the yellow brass and small parts group. They are visually inspected but wear of the splines is hard to gage from a go/no-go perspective. Additionally, fourth gear is up front and any pilot bushing excess wear, mis-alignment of the bellhousing or input bearing gear wear would exacerbate any syncro slider wear. I've been through a Muncie and a Toploader but never an A833 - and I understand parts are getting tough to find for them. If available, you may want to look at torq-lok sliders for a rebuild. They have the splines slightly dovetailed in the engagement area to assist in keeping the gear teeth locked in. Before removal however I would try and rule out the easy stuff first - re-adjustment of the linkage, back off the shifter stops for a trial, maybe even pull the cover and make sure the shift fork linkage is operating properly. And if you pull the transmission, be sure to check bellhousing alignment with a dial indicator and that it's within .006" of center.

what is the procedure and tools required to check and see if the bell housing is centered. I have dial indicators but what is used from the pilot bearing?

 

[Fran Blacker]

 

[Cranky]

That said, anyone that thinks the dogs and springs are the problem has their head up their ***.

Are you sure that's how you really feel??

I think you are on the right track. What I call the syncro sliders/collars are not commonly replaced on a rebuild as part of the yellow brass and small parts group. They are visually inspected but wear of the splines is hard to gage from a go/no-go perspective. Additionally, fourth gear is up front and any pilot bushing excess wear, mis-alignment of the bellhousing or input bearing gear wear would exacerbate any syncro slider wear. I've been through a Muncie and a Toploader but never an A833 - and I understand parts are getting tough to find for them. If available, you may want to look at torq-lok sliders for a rebuild. They have the splines slightly dovetailed in the engagement area to assist in keeping the gear teeth locked in. Before removal however I would try and rule out the easy stuff first - re-adjustment of the linkage, back off the shifter stops for a trial, maybe even pull the cover and make sure the shift fork linkage is operating properly. And if you pull the transmission, be sure to check bellhousing alignment with a dial indicator and that it's within .006" of center.

I like getting it closer.....the closer the better. It's a ripta but worth it imo.

Yep just done mine two weeks ago.
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Took longer than 2 hours though if you clean the inside of the case and extension properly that will take two hours in itself.View attachment 888915
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And some that are afraid to go into a rear end do this LOL

 

[Beekeeper]

who says I’m afraid of tearing into a rear diff?

 

[dan juhasz]

Ok , so I decided to drop the trans today after I double checked all the simple stuff. As I removed the magnetic plug I heard something hit the catch pan , then I looked at the magnet, not to good. Can I assume the ball I found is a detent ball?

 

[dan juhasz]

When I saw the amount of metal chips I was surprised the trans sounded and shifted as well as it did.

 

[Beekeeper]

Looks like the right size for a detent ball to me

 

[gkent]

I'm thinking this is going to be an expensive rebuild !!!

 

[Cranky]

I'm thinking this is going to be an expensive rebuild !!!

When I finally pulled the rear end in my diesel apart, I found less 'fuzz' etc than that on the mag and yet still found a bearing that was ate up pretty good. The gears were crying somewhat for awhile too and found lots of fine metal particles in the axle tubes. Just hope I got it cleaned up well enough. Wasn't too worried about the open diff since that got swapped out for a Power Lock....

 

[Beekeeper]

Bet both bearings are toast

 

[Beekeeper]

When I saw the amount of metal chips I was surprised the trans sounded and shifted as well as it did.

make sure you get every spec of metal out of the case and extension housing once you get it torn down. And there will be metal on the inside of the synchro assemblies and the main shaft so a full tear down is needed here to get all parts clean and inspected.

 

[AR67GTX]

I like getting it closer.....the closer the better. It's a ripta but worth it imo.

Re: bell housing run out. Actually .006 is the Muncie tolerance and the A833 tolerance may or may not be tighter. Yeah - the lesser the better and I'm usually real happy when it comes in around .003 or .004. But I use bushings - if you run a bearing (not advisable with a Muncie, Toploader or A833) then you need to get it down as small as possible. A seized bearing on the end of an input shaft is usually an ugly thing.

Thanks Fran for posting the procedure - saves a bunch of typing.

 

[dan juhasz]

So, I ordered a manual as I’m not familiar with the intricacies of these 4 speeds. All I’ve been is remove the side cover to take a look.
The input shaft/ gear is shot, half or more of the dog teeth are knocked out or badly damaged. The third gear dog teeth are pretty rough also. Detent balls were in place so not sure where that ball came from.
I think the synchro assemblies are the newer 70 and up style, and I think first and second gears were replaced during the last rebuild. I think this is a 2.65 ratio first gear set?

 

[Beekeeper]

So all three detent balls are accounted for along with the extra one you found?

 

[dan juhasz]

So all three detent balls are accounted for along with the extra one you found?

yup, i noticed the reverse light switch has a ball, i wonder if the ball popped out of an original switch and was never retrieved ?

 

[dan juhasz]

So you you guys think the condition of the dog teeth on the input could be why it would fall out of fourth or should the 3/4 syncro assembly be replaced regardless?