70 rr 4 speed conversion update

[NJRR]

I've pretty much sourced all my parts for my conversion over this brutal winter. I have an appointment with Jamie Passon for next Saturday. I'm bringing him the 833 I have to see the condition of the internals from a professional eye (looks good to me, but what do I know? LOL). At that point I will decide whether to have him rebuild my unit or possibly buy one of the OD units he has on special. I'm hoping my unit just needs new seals, bearings, etc and the gearset is good. My purpose in converting to the 4 speed is to be able to have FUN with the power of 1st and 2nd gears. Putting in the OD unit sort of defeats that purpose since first gear is sorta sluggish according to what I've read. I'm really not concerned with the advantage of the 4th OD gear since I won't be doing that much highway driving. Any opinions on that train of thought????

Only parts I still need are bellhousing, flywheel and clutch. I'm leaning towards the Centerforce Dual Friction unit. I heard a lot of good opinions on that PLUS I won't have to deal with installing the overcenter spring on the new pedal setup. Also, Brewer's has a repop 513 Bellhousing for $300 that I might use. Anyone have any experience with one? Also, any suggestions on flywheels?

As always, thanks for all your input gents. My son and I can't wait to start the project!!! :headbang: (STILL some snow outside, waiting for it to all melt.)

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And RC..... PLEASE, no comments about my unit !!!!! LMAO

 

[PlumcrazyRR]

As far as the clutch goes, I don't have any personal experience. I am in the process of looking for one for my 70 RR at the moment also and I have been going back and forth between the Centerforce and the McLeod unit. I have been reading good things on both and McLeod sells one also that is the diaphragm style. I will be following this thread to see what everyone says.

 

[747mopar]

Well it seams you know what you want, I personally would only put an overdrive in mine for the fuel savings and the ability to run a more aggressive gear but I plan on allot of freeway use. If your mechanical at all standards are pretty straight forward and easy to build, you can usually find a rebuild kit with all the bearing and synchronizers included then it's just a matter of inspecting the rest of the parts to be reused. Good luck, sounds like fun

 

[NJRR]

The McLeod is $110 less than the Centerforce from Brewers. Opinions anyone????

As far as the clutch goes, I don't have any personal experience. I am in the process of looking for one for my 70 RR at the moment also and I have been going back and forth between the Centerforce and the McLeod unit. I have been reading good things on both and McLeod sells one also that is the diaphragm style. I will be following this thread to see what everyone says.

 

[Ron 73]

I wouldn't even begin to know which may be better, I know only from reading what others say about either one, the Brewers seem to be the one most get or want, i don't think you would go wrong which ever way you went to be honest, i to will need to make the same decision one day and have no idea which one or another that pops up i may get. Good luck in your decision!

 

[tallhair]

Nice unit

 

[bigblock]

I have had both and I love the Centerforce. Nothing else for mine!

 

[NJRR]

Tallhair, you filling in for RC? :no:

Nice unit

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Bigblock- Anything specific that the Centerforce excels at over the McLeod? On Brewers, they list a McLeod Street Clutch with an organic disc and a Performance clutch with an organic/ceramic disc. Any idea of what difference that would make and/or what Centerforce uses? Which McCleod did you have?

I have had both and I love the Centerforce. Nothing else for mine!

 

[tallhair]

I've got his back

 

[Lighthorseman]

Well, I am also in the throes of a four speed swap, changing out the 383 / 727 combo in my '70 Satellite to a 440 / 4-Speed setup.

So far, I have the engine, transmission, and steering column out. I removed the front bench seat and carpet, as well as the original pedals and frame. I'm just waiting on a few bits and pieces, and as I begin to put everything back together, I plan to start a thread designed for UTTER newbies like me, as the few I have found assume you know what you're doing.

Boy, it's been a real learning process.

 

[NJRR]

Lighthorseman- I'm looking forward to your thread, as I'm a newbie at this too. I'm just doing the 727 to 833 swap, so not as involved as yours. Please post any tricks you figure out or things NOT to do !!!! And pics would be awesome !!!

Well, I am also in the throes of a four speed swap, changing out the 383 / 727 combo in my '70 Satellite to a 440 / 4-Speed setup.

So far, I have the engine, transmission, and steering column out. I removed the front bench seat and carpet, as well as the original pedals and frame. I'm just waiting on a few bits and pieces, and as I begin to put everything back together, I plan to start a thread designed for UTTER newbies like me, as the few I have found assume you know what you're doing.

Boy, it's been a real learning process.

 

[NJRR]

UPDATE- WENT TO PASSON TODAY !!

So I took the 300 mile round trip today (okay, slight detour to go to a gun show too and met with Jamie Passon. I brought him my A833 to take a look at and glad that I did. As a reminder, I was thinking of rebuilding it myself or having him rebuild it. Jamie pointed out 3 major and one minor issue. 1-I had a 69 tailshaft which would not have fit the trans cross-member properly in my 70RR, so I would have had to change the tailshaft or cross-member. 2- Second gear was shot, so had to replace that. 3- input shaft was worn, so would have had to change that. 4- one synchro ring was cracked which would have been replaced on the rebuild anyhow. My options were tackle the whole rebuild myself and source those parts, let Jamie rebuild it, buy a rebuilt unit from him, buy one of the OD units he has on special. I decided there were too many issues with my unit to rebuild it myself, even before tearing the whole tranny apart, so I decided to buy one from Jamie. Next decision was a stock 833 or an OD 833. My concern was the fun factor. Would I lose too much oomph with the 3.09 first gear to 1.67 second gear in the OD unit? I decided it wasn't worth the tradeoff. I'm doing this conversion because I want to have fun with the 4 speed and if I have lag shifting from 1st to 2nd with such a big ratio spread then I defeat my purpose right from the get go. The 4th gear cruising was never an issue for me as I do very little highway/long distance driving with my car.
All that being said, Jamie had a correct rebuilt stock 833 in his shop. It would have cost me the same to have him rebuild my unit as it did for the rebuilt unit he had in stock with him buying my 833 as a core. So, I left his place with a correct, totally rebuilt 833 ready to put into my RR. I feel very confident with the unit I got from him, especially with a 12 month warranty and I didn't have to make another 300 mile round trip to pick up my rebuilt trans. Also, I want to say that Jamie is a heck of a nice guy. He was happy to answer my questions and explain things to me, going over some pointers and questions I had about my conversion. Do not hesitate to do business with him.
I'm pretty much ready to start the conversion. Just have to get the bell housing, clutch, flywheel and a couple of odds and ends. I'll keep you all posted when I start the disassembly.

 

[RJS]

Did you ask Jamie about clutches?? I know he always recommends McCloud.
I bought a 12" setup from him years ago and was very disappointed in it. Pedal wouldn't always return on hi RPM shifts. I wanted a Center Force but went with his suggestion. Replaced with a Center Force and all was well. I had Center Force in a few cars over the years and never a problem so if I ever need a clutch that's the way I'll go. Couldn't you pick up a bell from him and whatever else you needed?
Ron

 

[NJRR]

Hey Ron- I didn't discuss clutches with him. I'm probably going with a Center Force also. I've read a lot of good things about them plus I won't have to muscle the over center spring on the new pedal setup. Your recommendation adds to my decision to use one. Jamie had a 513 bell there but I spent my monthly budget buying his rebuilt 833, so the rest of the parts will have to wait till May. They make a repop 513 also for over $100 less than originals. Anyone ever use one? Any issues?

Did you ask Jamie about clutches?? I know he always recommends McCloud.
I bought a 12" setup from him years ago and was very disappointed in it. Pedal wouldn't always return on hi RPM shifts. I wanted a Center Force but went with his suggestion. Replaced with a Center Force and all was well. I had Center Force in a few cars over the years and never a problem so if I ever need a clutch that's the way I'll go. Couldn't you pick up a bell from him and whatever else you needed?
Ron

 

[SlinktRR]

Hey how is it going with your passon 4-speed? I saw he was clearing out old stock for good prices, was really tempted to try this swap.

 

[NJRR]

I still have to get a few parts before I start- bellhousing, flywheel, clutch. Plus, been real busy with work and the honey-do list, so sorta on hold. Hopefully will start next month. I will def post my progress.

Hey how is it going with your passon 4-speed? I saw he was clearing out old stock for good prices, was really tempted to try this swap.

 

[coloradodave]

I use a Centerforce Dual Friction clutch in my car and am very happy with it. Good pedal pressure (I had a mechanical set-up before I went with a hydraulic throw-out bearing), predictable engagement and great holding power. Check out Summit's catalog for a good description of the different pressure plates. They also sell McLeod so you can compare. One nice thing is that over $100.00 purchase freight is free.

 

[NJRR]

Life got in the way last year and I was not able to do my conversion. However, I am doing it later this month. I finally sourced the rest of the parts and have everything except the shifter boot and bezel (will get repops I guess). I made the decision not to do it myself. I realized I didn't have the tools, the skill set or the time to get it done right. Plus, I don't think my neighbors or the town would have let me leave my car in my driveway up on blocks/jackstands for the month/s + it would take me to do it without a lot of hassle. I am having Jamie Passon do the conversion. I bought the rebuilt 833 from him. When I was at his shop picking it up last year, he was doing a 68 or 69 RR conversion/reconversion. I think the owner put in a Tremec and it was a real butcher job. Jamie and his crew were putting right what was wrong. I was speaking to his one mechanic who gave me a rundown of what they were doing. He def knew his stuff so I feel confident they can do mine right. I have a console automatic now, but I'm removing the console and installing a buddy seat I got from a member here. Jamie will weld in the brackets when he welds in the hump for the 4 speed. One of the big drawbacks of me doing it myself was I didn't have a welder and have no experience welding. Also, I will be putting in sound and heat insulation (Dynamat type but less $$$) myself and replacing the carpet when I get it back.

It's going to cost me some $$$ to have him do it but I know it will be done right !!! I am going to sell the console, shifter and 727 to try to recoup some of the cost. Also, it will only take a few weeks for him to do it so I should have the car back with my 4 speed by the end of May. I'll give you all an update and some pics when I get it back. Wish me luck !!!!

PS- Here's all my parts except for clutch and flywheel.

 

[NJRR]

Dropped the car off at Passon yesterday and met with Jamie and his crew. He put the car on the lift after going over the exterior of the car and documenting the condition ( for his protection and mine- if there's any damage to the car upon pick up, I'm protected. If I claim damage was never there before, Jamie is protected. He got screwed once by this. Smart to document it.).

Jamie inspected the entire drive train from trans back. Noticed that there was some play in the u-joints, so replacing those too. He thinks the rear ujoint is original to the car- date coded and has wire on it (see pic below).

I also had a slight drip from the power steering box, top and bottom seals. Looks like I will be replacing it with a FirmFeel Stage 2. Didn't really plan on that expense, but the car will already be apart so might as well bite the bullet now. When the car was restored, a PST kit was used on the front suspension and only have a few thousand miles on it since, so hopefully I won't have to touch that. Props to Jamie's attention to detail for picking up on that issue. Jamie will also be welding in buddy seat brackets after removing the console. I like having an armrest

I will be listing for sale the 727 I'm removing (originally from a 69), shifts great, slight drip I think from dip-stick o-ring. Also the auto console, shifter and linkage, auto brake pedal assembly, basically everything I'm removing. I'm open to offers before I list them. PM me here. Will not have these parts available for 3-4 weeks when I go back up to PA to pick up my reborn ride !!!

PS- I saw one of Jamie's new 5 speed overdrives on a bench. What a beauty. Yes, they do exist !!!!!!







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Oh yeah, my son and I stopped off at this place on the way home. We almost cried at all the goodies the fine citizens of PA could buy. The tyrannical state of NJ sucks if you're a gun owner. And, the "conservative" Gov Christie isn't helping us !!!!!