Electrical draw PIA

[Tori]

Thank you sir. Yes, that is what it is. Now, anyone have a clue as to WTF mine is doing what it's doing?

 

[Tori]

this is an interesting read and probably points to my problem. At least in a round-about way. Seems like a common failure point.
https://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical2.html

 

[Tori]

So maybe mine isn't bad afterall..... Found this post from another member talking about the noise suppressor next to the IPR
"It is a capacitor to reduce, not ignition noise, but to reduce the "noise" generated by the opening/closing of the points inside the instrument panel voltage regulator. The old style gauges use +5 volts to operate; the voltage regulator is thermal on/off device (actually a percent cycle timer on time vs off time) or if 100% on is 12 volts and 5 volt output is 5/12 on time to yield 5 volt output required by the gauges. Simple but the replacment devices are far more effective in providing the needed 5 volts. This is just my opinion...
Cheers,
RJ RENTON (Bob)"

So... why is mine powered up all the time ? This is getting fun. ;)

 

[wagonman]

Cant remember but is the amp gauge powered all the time? I think it is and not a keyed on 12v source. What is the path that activates the VR to supply 5v to the gauges? I dont have a schematic for a 71 just a 68. Should be fairly close let me dig it out and see if I can make heads or tails of the Ckt. Might be tomorrow. FYI I put one of the solid state Vrs in mine but it was part of the printed ckt for the cluster. They do make one that plugs in to an OEM board but mine was FUBAR so replacement was necessary.

 

[Tori]

Thanks Wagonman, yes the Ammeter stays hot all the time.
The IPR is goofy to test, 12v constant going in one side, and the output leg will be constant at first, then start its flashing bit.
Thanks for the help, I look forward to learning more about this system.

 

[wagonman]

Well this is bugging me. 1st question is the VR should not be hot with 12v with key off right? Is it? On my 68 the only place I see a 12v feed for the IPC is Ign 1 feed from the Ign sw. That is G5-18DBL. That is shared at the sw withj2-16DBL that goes to the Alt voltage regulator. See if it is hot at the ign terminal at alt reg. Key off of course. If it is I think you have an issue with the ign sw. Grain of salt as this is a 68 book.

 

[Tori]

Ooooh, I like where your going with that. Yes, the IPR is hot with key off. Clearly it shouldn’t be,... at least I don’t see why it would be, but looking at this pic, you can see it’s power is coming off the ammeter and runs to IPR. (See green highlighter)
Maybe someone at some point got the wires wrong in the cluster.

 

[Tori]

Anyone know where the IPR should be getting it's 12v+ power ?

 

[Tori]

Can anyone identify these two wires ? Coming from the instrument cluster harness, there are two blacks with covered female spade connectors. One is ground and i believe is the ground for the cluster. I had an empty male spade terminal on the cluster so i assume this goes there.
There is a second one though, doesn't have power and is not grounded. At least with key on, engine off.

Thoughts ?

 

[wagonman]

Well for one thing your cluster is WAY different than mine, no ckt board and no bastard stepchild POS round pin connector. Looks like all the gauges are insulated from the cluster body with a kind of Bakelite strips,much better IMO. We know the VR should not have constant 12v. Is that a homemade jumper from the amp gauge to the VR ? You really need a service manual schematic, Looks like a PO got some wires crossed or ??

 

[Tori]

Definitely not home made jumper. It's got the rubber molded end at the eyelet, bakelite spade connector with paper Mopar tag at the other. This Rally cluster was most likely transplanted to my car since it was just a Satellite at birth. I have been looking at the schematic for a 71 Satellite, and it show the round pin connector you mention. Now that makes some sense to me hearing that.
Can you tell me what wire is supposed to feed the IPR ? I assume it's something from the ignition switch harness.

 

[wagonman]

Well for my App its the Ign 1 ckt off the Ign Sw. Wow the whole IPC harness must have been replaced also. I would think a 71 R/R or GTX had a Ralley cluster. For sure use that schematic. Iknow there is a link here to schematics , Think it is Allpar or something like that.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

If that’s an original rallye dash harness, there should be another key-switched black wire that is meant to be the power supply for the voltage limiter. The un-switched lead from the ammeter would have powered a clock if so equipped.

 

[Tori]

I’m not real sure on the harness. It was replaced at some point, the guy who built the car said there was a fire at some point/place and it was replaced. Anyway, there is what appears a dedicated lead for the clock, it has a round female connector that slides over one of the ammeter posts.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

I thought I read you found the clock (unswitched) power supply connected to the VR. If so, it would explain a draw. There are three black wires with female spades, one should be wider than the other two, that is the cluster ground, connects to the mounting bracket of the VR. The two others, as you see, one connects direct to unswitched power at the ammeter, is for the clock. The third should be switched power, key on, is the input power for the VR. VR should only be powered up with the ignition.
Verify these connections with a multimeter.

 

[Tori]

You are completely right, now that I have that as confirmation, everything you said matches distance and “memory bend” to the places you describe. My fault is the switched ignition black wire from harness is dead. The VR was jumpered with a new wire from the ammeter. Tossing that piece out and will source the power supply for that switched black wire. Thanks for your help.

 

[Tori]

and so the plot thickens.... I didn't want to just hack into a wire somewhere and run around the real issue, so i traced that black wire that supposed to feed my VR, and traced it to this yellow, 3 female connector. (there are only 2 wires going to it, tan and my black) What is this connector, what connects to it ? I cannot see anything that would connect to it.

Also, while we are trying to ID wires, can you help ID these others....

This blue pair with white connector is directly behind cluster.

This pair of blacks are at the left side of dash, just above heater control

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

The three-way molded bullet plug is the ACC tap. Key switched accessories would connect there. The Tan wire comes from the fuse box, powers the tap and VR. Check the fuse if you don’t have switched power at that connection.

The dark blue wires/Molex connector pictured for a seat belt warning light.

The single male bullet connector is for the parking bake switch.

 

[Tori]

You d'man ! Thank you sir. I clearly don't have a schematic for this car, and i don't think even if i did i could find a damn thing. Been trying to read the ones i have all week and getting nowhere.

I didn't have switched power to the yellow connector, but after investigating and simply wiggling the fuse, BAM,... now it's good.

Thank you for helping me figure this out without butchering the car. I like to fix things right and aside from removing some of the harness wrapping, she's untouched.

 

[Tori]

One more thing while your schematic is still out.....

can you tell me what green/red wire at 19 is in the bulkhead fitting ?

Thank you again.