This was discussed in another forum. Either Mobil One is lying about their data or it is not SN graded oil. Could be an older data sheet but it cannot have that amount of zinc to be classified SN.
ZDDP additive
- Thread starter Monkeymaster
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This was discussed in another forum. Either Mobil One is lying about their data or it is not SN graded oil. Could be an older data sheet but it cannot have that amount of zinc to be classified SN.
Sweet5ltr
Well-Known Member
Date sheet was updated February 2018
Factual information provided in that 'forum' from multiple tests or just hearsay?
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CompSyn
Well-Known Member
Those oil pressures are pretty much ideal for a street engine. Not much to gain with 20W-50 other than power loss through parasitic drag.
Edit: saw your last post. A good 10W-30 is probably more like it.
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CompSyn
Well-Known Member
I believe it has something to do with the thicker viscosity that allows for the (SN) rating. By contrast, VR-1 20W-50 is listed on the API licensee directory as a (SN) rated oil. It's also how multi-fleet heavy duty engine oil could be rated (SN) but still have higher zinc. I think that changed with the new CK-4 rating though.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
the 0w- 40 and most 20w 50 and 5w50 are at the low end of the 40 or 50 range
the 0W-40 could be considered a near high spec 30
the 0W-40 could be considered a near high spec 30
CompSyn
Well-Known Member
Right, what I should have said is the actual oil rating. For example, a 20W-50 (SN) rated motor oil has a different, higher, zinc limit than a 5W-30 (SN) rated motor oil.
Using the VR1 20-50, I’d check to see how much oil is coming off the rockers. When I used it, not much was flowing, so I went to VR1 10-30, sooooo much better. It’s always better to have flow than pressure.
I hope you are right as a high zinc off the shelf oil is nice to have. Mobil 1 use to have higher zinc content in their high mileage oils until they became SN rated.
Date sheet was updated February 2018
Factual information provided in that 'forum' from multiple tests or just hearsay?
No, from a guy who works in the oil biz and has always been a help in oil discussions. I have no reason to doubt him but I have no idea how they rate oils.
CompSyn
Well-Known Member
I just confirmed what I mentioned earlier. In the API Certification document, they set the phosphorus limit for (SN) viscosity grades 0W-16 through 10W-30 at 0.08%. All other (SN) rated viscosity grades have no required upper phosphorus limits. Basically, anything in a 40, 50 grade can have higher ZDDP as long as it’s not “Resource Conserving”.
Read it here on page 60: https://www.api.org/~/media/files/c...sel/publications/150917thaddendum1-032515.pdf
Ranger16
Well-Known Member
WOW! That link made my head hurt
, but it did make me consider switching from Rotella T5 10W30 to 10W40.
CompSyn
Well-Known Member
WOW! That link made my head hurt, but it did make me consider switching from Rotella T5 10W30 to 10W40.
Why is that? Do you think your oil pressure is low?
Ranger16
Well-Known Member
No, no oil pressure problems at all. Just because of what you said in post #70 regarding phosphorus levels.
CompSyn
Well-Known Member
If you recall from the thread over at the nest, the latest T-5 (CK-4) has plenty of ZDDP.
As per my VOA:
PHOSPHORUS-----1020
ZINC---------------1167
So as long as you have good oil pressure, I wouldn't be concerned.
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Ranger16
Well-Known Member
I have never been to that site, but I like those numbers. Probably don't even need the ZDDP Plus. I'll stick with the T5 10W30. Thanks.
CompSyn
Well-Known Member
Really? Must be your twin from Woodstock Il. ->
https://www.69roadrunner.net/mopar/threads/engine-oil-opinions.13934/#post-160280
BBishere2
Well-Known Member
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
This is a long read but packed full of information concerning engine oils.
I will be changing oil brand after reading this article.
This is a long read but packed full of information concerning engine oils.
I will be changing oil brand after reading this article.
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Talking about long winded! Maybe a chart or a graph? Who's got time to read every word of that?
I did see where he bashed Penn Grade.
I also read where he gave Quaker State high marks! I've personally seen what QS can do to an engine, many times.
CompSyn
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen this circulating around the web. The 540rat write up uses a modified test procedure with a timken bearing tester. He flat out says the test does not correlate to a working engine, which he’s right to say. So to me personally, it’s not very useful information. But he did indeed put a lot of work into it though.
Bee1971
Well-Known Member
Conclusion from that article
He doesn’t like break in oils
He doesn’t like ZDDP Additive added to oils
He likes thinner oils
.
Engine break-in is NOT Rocket Science. You just need to make a wise choice when selecting the motor oil to use. At the end of the day, here’s what I recommend:
.
* For traditional flat tappet engines, no matter how wicked they may be – use a highly ranked oil from my Wear Protection Ranking list, no matter how much zinc is in it, for break-in to protect against wiped lobes, and a side benefit is that no elaborate break-in procedures will be necessary. Then continue to use the same oil after break-in. NOTE: This recommendation also applies to any other non-roller type engine.
.
* For traditional roller lifter engines – since they don’t have flat tappet lifter/lobe interfaces, their break-in is not as critical as it is for flat tappet engines. So, you can pretty much use any oil you have sitting around, and it won’t make any particular difference for break-in. However, with that said, I would still recommend using a highly ranked oil from my Wear Protection Ranking list, no matter how much zinc is in it, for break-in. Because roller engines still have various component interfaces that can benefit from using oils that provide excellent wear protection. Then continue to use the same oil after break-in. NOTE: This recommendation also applies to any other roller type engine.
.
No matter what anyone tells you, the same oil can be used just fine for both break-in and after break-in. These above recommendations have proven to work very well in the real world, while providing excellent protection for your engine.
.
Other points I’d suggest are:
.
• Always prime an engine, making sure that oil is coming out of all rockers, right before first fire.
.
• Use a thinner oil such as 5W30 or 10W30, rather than something thicker. Because thinner oil will flow quicker/better. And flow is lubrication. Also quicker/better flow will get oil to all components sooner which is very important to prevent unnecessary wear during cold start-up. And the quicker/better flow of thinner oil, will also carry away heat quicker/better than what thicker oils can. Remember that engine internal parts are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INDIRECTLY water cooled.
.
• And the last thing is to change the oil soon after initial break-in, to get rid of all the contaminants that will be present right after first firing a brand new engine.
540 RAT
He doesn’t like break in oils
He doesn’t like ZDDP Additive added to oils
He likes thinner oils
.
Engine break-in is NOT Rocket Science. You just need to make a wise choice when selecting the motor oil to use. At the end of the day, here’s what I recommend:
.
* For traditional flat tappet engines, no matter how wicked they may be – use a highly ranked oil from my Wear Protection Ranking list, no matter how much zinc is in it, for break-in to protect against wiped lobes, and a side benefit is that no elaborate break-in procedures will be necessary. Then continue to use the same oil after break-in. NOTE: This recommendation also applies to any other non-roller type engine.
.
* For traditional roller lifter engines – since they don’t have flat tappet lifter/lobe interfaces, their break-in is not as critical as it is for flat tappet engines. So, you can pretty much use any oil you have sitting around, and it won’t make any particular difference for break-in. However, with that said, I would still recommend using a highly ranked oil from my Wear Protection Ranking list, no matter how much zinc is in it, for break-in. Because roller engines still have various component interfaces that can benefit from using oils that provide excellent wear protection. Then continue to use the same oil after break-in. NOTE: This recommendation also applies to any other roller type engine.
.
No matter what anyone tells you, the same oil can be used just fine for both break-in and after break-in. These above recommendations have proven to work very well in the real world, while providing excellent protection for your engine.
.
Other points I’d suggest are:
.
• Always prime an engine, making sure that oil is coming out of all rockers, right before first fire.
.
• Use a thinner oil such as 5W30 or 10W30, rather than something thicker. Because thinner oil will flow quicker/better. And flow is lubrication. Also quicker/better flow will get oil to all components sooner which is very important to prevent unnecessary wear during cold start-up. And the quicker/better flow of thinner oil, will also carry away heat quicker/better than what thicker oils can. Remember that engine internal parts are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INDIRECTLY water cooled.
.
• And the last thing is to change the oil soon after initial break-in, to get rid of all the contaminants that will be present right after first firing a brand new engine.
540 RAT
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