First questions on my 727 rebuild journey
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-PERFO...ash=item2829094c45:g:ovgAAOSwopRYetdh&vxp=mtr
Don't know if this is the right flex plate. I wouldn't use it the one you have why take a chance? Is pulling the trans worth a $75 to a $110 dollar part or the other damage it could do?
Don't know if this is the right flex plate. I wouldn't use it the one you have why take a chance? Is pulling the trans worth a $75 to a $110 dollar part or the other damage it could do?
Looked in service manual it says "Inspect converter drive plate for distortion and replace if necessary" no spec.. .027" difference is distorted to me. In an earlier post that a smaller converter might rub on pump housing. The converter lugs where the flex plate bolt to converter should be at least 1/2" in from the face of where trans mounts to engine. You'll find this near the end of trans section of service manual.
I've been building torque Flites for 30 years. Bushings (except pump) are seldom worn. I could count the number that needed replacing on one hand. Flex plates are just that, FLEX plates, they flex. As long as it isn't cracked and the bolt holes are fine it'll be fine
Doug
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I concur with Doug. I've been rebuilding T.F.s for 46 years myself.
Mike
Mike
miller
Well-Known Member
Agreed! Flexplates are called that for a reason. Two plus two stuff. If there are signs of abnormal wear on the pump bushing, sure, consider...the converter needs to run true.
Yeah, it flops around a bit (normal), but within limits.
You'll find plenty of things in the trans, that need to be 'true', and simply make it right.
Two critical things...clearances...end play. That's besides simply having good parts installed, and measured right.
Yeah, it flops around a bit (normal), but within limits.
You'll find plenty of things in the trans, that need to be 'true', and simply make it right.
Two critical things...clearances...end play. That's besides simply having good parts installed, and measured right.
The wear on the converter really makes want to eliminate the flex plate as the cause. If I decided to straighten the flex plate I'd find out which was closest to the back of engine. Sense it's only .027 I make them all like the one closest to the back of the engine
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OK fellas,
I just made a fixture to check the centerline concentricity of the crankshaft against the transmission centerline. My combination is out .022 TIR toward the right side. I am ordering offset dowels to correct the situation. I would think this problem may be more common than we imagine and certainly contributes to pump bushing wear.
Mike
OK - I've dialed in bell housings a few times to check centerline but I haven't a clue how you would do this with an automatic. Have you got some pictures of how you are doing it?
Finally got the thing down off the hoist and starting to break it down. Going slow trying to keep track of where everything goes.
When you have trans torn down the area where the oil pump housing gasket seals on the trans case treat it just like the bearing retainer hole of a 4 speed bell housing.
OK - bolt the empty case to the block, mount the dial indicator on the flexplate and reading on the pump register - then rotate the engine 360 degrees. I can't figure out how you read the dial indicator in there? Maybe it will make sense when I get the case emptied out - possibly through the valve body cavity?
Another subject - anyone use MAKCO Transmission parts? They seem to have a pretty complete inventory.
Is the Transgo TF-1 valve body mod a good idea?
Yes that is a problem. Mirror held through pan hole and some else turns the motor. If the motor and trans are original to the car I doubt this is a problem. Since you have it apart you'll have some piece of mind if you check it. Bet you'll figure it out or somebody knows another way.
miller
Well-Known Member
Of the half dozen 727s I've done...I've never checked that line-up. Personally, don't think it's needed. All this stuff is cut on a fixture, to keep things in line. But, it's your dance!
When I do get extreme, I use a pane of glass, since their perfectly flat. If, and when, I want to check things, I'll look at the flexplate, since it's critical to that spinning mass, and the run-out of the shaft.
All three, or four of the mounting faces on the plate need to be flat. Placing the flexplate on the glass will show if the mount faces are in line. Checking if it's square...flip it over on the glass, and measure each, to the glass.
Anyway, never had a problem, as long as that flexplate is good.
In your handbook, there's plenty of proven mods, that can be done.
Sounds like your's will still have decent parts in it (maybe), but, look everything over. If any doubt...replace it! Look for wear, parts burnt, and so on. On the pinion thing, it only takes one bad gear, to make the cage bad...so, carefully check 'em. That handbook will tell you most of what you want to know.
When I do get extreme, I use a pane of glass, since their perfectly flat. If, and when, I want to check things, I'll look at the flexplate, since it's critical to that spinning mass, and the run-out of the shaft.
All three, or four of the mounting faces on the plate need to be flat. Placing the flexplate on the glass will show if the mount faces are in line. Checking if it's square...flip it over on the glass, and measure each, to the glass.
Anyway, never had a problem, as long as that flexplate is good.
Bet their prices are higher. Too easy to get good overhaul kits, from a supply house.
I'd call that...up to you.
In your handbook, there's plenty of proven mods, that can be done.
Sounds like your's will still have decent parts in it (maybe), but, look everything over. If any doubt...replace it! Look for wear, parts burnt, and so on. On the pinion thing, it only takes one bad gear, to make the cage bad...so, carefully check 'em. That handbook will tell you most of what you want to know.
If you decide to go the manual/ reverse shift pattern the way I did you can't undo it without a new valve body. I don't recommend it. I'd change mine back but to lazy, a pain in the *** and don't want to open a can of worms. You have hold back on deceleration 3 to 2 but not in low. I agree with miller on flex plate, a good way to straighten it.
I was debating starting a second thread since I now have the basic disassembly done but I guess I'll stick with this one.
Nothing too obvious when I took it apart. I haven't removed the overrunning clutch in the back of the case yet. The rollers and spacers will slip out but I will have to knock the outer "cam" race out and not sure this really needs to be done????
I don't really see or feel anything significantly wrong with the two planetary sets. The small one (Reverse gear I guess) looks really nice - everything is slick and smooth. The larger one spins fine and smooth but the planet gears have lots of little hash marks on the teeth. Just doesn't look as nice as the small one. Tried to take some pictures but they may not be real sharp.
Still leaning toward replacing this.
Took the pump apart and didn't really see anything there. It's not finely machined but nothing that looks like junk has been ground through it. The pan was pretty clean but not that many miles since last fluid change.
The servo cylinders have a bit of scuffing on the walls of a couple but I assume working them over with some 600 or 1000 grit sandpaper will take care of that.
The drum housings, bands and band surfaces all look fine. Some of these parts like the front drum look like new.
A few other misc photos:
Governor looks virtually new
Comments?
What bushings should I be taking a close look at?
Thanks
Nothing too obvious when I took it apart. I haven't removed the overrunning clutch in the back of the case yet. The rollers and spacers will slip out but I will have to knock the outer "cam" race out and not sure this really needs to be done????
I don't really see or feel anything significantly wrong with the two planetary sets. The small one (Reverse gear I guess) looks really nice - everything is slick and smooth. The larger one spins fine and smooth but the planet gears have lots of little hash marks on the teeth. Just doesn't look as nice as the small one. Tried to take some pictures but they may not be real sharp.
Still leaning toward replacing this.
Took the pump apart and didn't really see anything there. It's not finely machined but nothing that looks like junk has been ground through it. The pan was pretty clean but not that many miles since last fluid change.
The servo cylinders have a bit of scuffing on the walls of a couple but I assume working them over with some 600 or 1000 grit sandpaper will take care of that.
The drum housings, bands and band surfaces all look fine. Some of these parts like the front drum look like new.
A few other misc photos:
Governor looks virtually new
Comments?
What bushings should I be taking a close look at?
Thanks
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miller
Well-Known Member
Overrunning clutch...yup, that outer race should slip out. The condition of the outer surface needs to be looked at, polished, and check for clearance. With the entire clutch cleaned, and re-assembled, check for smooth/correct operation.
From the photos, trash has gone through parts, including the pump. I'd replace it. Trying to clean the scoring will probably put it out of limit. Like anything else, mostly common sense stuff...either going to work, or not, or not very long.
Scoring on the piston bores 'can' be done, if not out-of-hand. Mainly a sealing surface for the piston seals.
Your main looking on the pinion gear sets, was whining, so...past any signs of any bad parts, or trying to go bad, is your call. If cleaned up, set the parts involved together, and 'feel' for any roughness while rotating.
miller
Well-Known Member
Well, all, but mainly just for condition.
miller
Well-Known Member
Just for grins, I'll toss this in...
My flexplate 'check', is only to check for flat, and square...not to straighten it...but, to see if it needs to be replaced. Trying to straighten one is not recommended.
Shift body...since trash has gone through the trans, there's a chance it's in the shift body, too. The book will tell you all about it, but much scoring on the valves, and their bores is big time no-no. Complete shift bodys can cheaply be replaced, if any doubt!
My flexplate 'check', is only to check for flat, and square...not to straighten it...but, to see if it needs to be replaced. Trying to straighten one is not recommended.
Shift body...since trash has gone through the trans, there's a chance it's in the shift body, too. The book will tell you all about it, but much scoring on the valves, and their bores is big time no-no. Complete shift bodys can cheaply be replaced, if any doubt!
When you get to valve body I'd like to know how the torque converter control valve looks. Is it gummed up, scored or looks fine?
Didn't want to comment on pump parts last night my experience is limited, thought to let others (like miller)comment.
Didn't want to comment on pump parts last night my experience is limited, thought to let others (like miller)comment.
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