Fresh 440 Build - Water in Oil

[WildEarp]

Booooo... Fresh 440 I built a million years ago and has been sitting. Fired up fairly easily and ran good at 2000 rpm up until the fuel pump failed and stopped pumping gas. Checked the dipstick, Mayonnaise for days. Oil isnt too bad, but definitely has some water in it. Only ran for a few minutes, so I assume the leak is pretty good. Water and oil were only filled for the first time a few weeks ago.

So, anything else I should check before pulling the heads? I already pulled the plugs but cannot tell if any of them are wet or cleaner than the others, not enough run time. I have to assume the head gasket didn't seal right??

Its a RB, so no water crossover in the intake manifold that I need to worry about. Anything in the water pump area or anything else?

Sucks, as this was my first motor rebuild ever way back when, and my first Holley Carb rebuild ever, and was really glad the carb was working well. Ran great and sounded awesome. Thanks for your input!

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Think positive & give us some more detail.
1. How was the engine stored?
2. Could it have gotten rain inside?
3. Did it set somewhere that it could get water condensation in it a little bit, year after year?
4. Was it in a car that might have gotten fuel in the gas tank OR did you just install the engine?
5. Did it run like crap (water in fuel) or pretty good when you fired it up?
6. When it was running, did you open the radiator cap & see a bunch of huge bubbles?

I suggest you fix the fuel pump, try to deal with the moisture that's in there now, and then make a decision about pulling a head.
1. If there's a chance that you have water in your fuel, drain the tank, re-fill with premium (preferably with ethanol in it) & add two bottles of red-bottle Heet (aka-iso heet)
2. For the engine oil, drain the oil, re-fill with fresh, add a bottle of sea foam, run 5 min. MAXIMUM AT IDLE ONLY, re-drain oil a 2nd time & re-fill with fresh oil a 2nd time (change filter each oil change), then run the engine for a bit longer & keep checking the oil for water & the radiator for big bubbles (head gasket leak).

At any point something "doesn't seem right", then shut off the motor. You might have a head gasket leak, cracked block, cracked head..... but hopefully not. There isn't anything around the water pump that would get water into your oil.

GOOD LUCK & LET US KNOW WHAT YOU FIND

 

[WildEarp]

Thanks for the info!
1. In the car, in a garage. 15+ years. Ready to go except valves not set (all fully closed). Carb on, exhaust on, plugs in.
2. No way its rain water.
3. Condensation - doubt it. I live in a pretty dry area, and it has always been garaged. Never had a moisture problem in the garage. Didnt notice any water on the stick when filling w/ oil. I drained the oil, and am waiting for it to separate to get an idea of how much water is in it.
4. Running from a jerry can of fresh fuel, all new hoses this week. No way its water in the fuel.
5. Ran great. Was a very retarded at first and got a few backfires, so thought maybe it blew the head gasket possibly.
6. Didn't notice radiator at all, worried too much about the fuel pump.

Cam isn't broken in yet fully, so I have to do that at the same time.. Already had more cranking time then I would like. Guess I can order some more break in oil and give it another run, but don't really want to waste my time and money on good oil knowing it all has to come apart anyways. Plus I would think the chance of it over heating it while breaking in the cam is higher due to a head gasket leak.

 

[WildEarp]

Insides looked pristine still based on looking down the distributor hole. No rust or anything.

 

[khryslerkid]

Borrow a radiator pressure tester from the local auto parts. Pump it up to 15 lbs. and see if it's loosing pressure. You might be able to hear it or see it. Leave the drain plug out, inspect cylinders.

Good luck.

 

[WildEarp]

Borrow a radiator pressure tester from the local auto parts. Pump it up to 15 lbs. and see if it's loosing pressure. You might be able to hear it or see it. Leave the drain plug out, inspect cylinders.

That I can do. Should I do it w/ or w/o water in the system? I figure I may be able to hear the air escaping easier than the water slowly dripping into my cylinder.

 

[khryslerkid]

That I can do. Should I do it w/ or w/o water in the system? I figure I may be able to hear the air escaping easier than the water slowly dripping into my cylinder.

I'd do it with water in the system

 

[dvw]

Air each cylinder with the pressure tester attached to the radiator. Does the pressure tester gauge go up? Air up the oil pressure sending unit port with the pressure tester hooked up. Does the gauge go up? let me know.
Doug

 

[oldbee]

Air each cylinder with the pressure tester attached to the radiator. Does the pressure tester gauge go up? Air up the oil pressure sending unit port with the pressure tester hooked up. Does the gauge go up? let me know.
Doug

That is a helluva good idea. You’ll probably look at a hdgskt or head though. Hopefully gasket.

 

[flypaper]

compression test all cylinders to see if you can isolate the problem before you go tearing it all apart.
then leak down test any low readings you get
that way you have a idea of where/what the problem is..

 

[WildEarp]

Air each cylinder with the pressure tester attached to the radiator. Does the pressure tester gauge go up? Air up the oil pressure sending unit port with the pressure tester hooked up. Does the gauge go up? let me know.
Doug

Will do. Thanks!

My local auto parts store doesnt do loaner tools, so I ordered a coolant pressure tester and will have it tomorrow. Last night, i recalled, when I was trying to get the motor started, and was messing w/ the timing, I heard some weird noises from inside the motor, and I figured it was just the coolant making its way through the passages, or compression getting past the new rings, but now that I think about it, Ive never heard noises like that before, and Im pretty sure it was compression and or coolant pressure making its way to where it shouldn't be.

Im really hoping its just a gasket too, where as i do still have my stock 67 heads in storage, these heads are ported 67 heads w/ oversized valves from a 70s-80 era built 426 wedge race motor, so I was really hoping to use them, but I can understand how there may be a problem w/ over-porting or even a possible crack (although Im pretty sure they were checked for cracks when we rebuilt them).

So, it will be a few days before I can do the coolant pressure test, but I am going to try putting compressed air into each cylinder today, and see what it does.

 

[miller]

Personally, I wouldn't run the motor any, until you find, and fix the leak.

 

[WildEarp]

Yeah, I made that mistake w/ a turbo Toyota i build once. Not going to risk it. I did drain the oil and pulled the valve covers and distributor, and while oil didnt look great, it wasnt that bad. Could mostly be from all the assembly lube, there wasnt a ton of water, and I didnt see any mayonnaise anywhere but on the dipstick. My radiator water level hasnt gone down either. The coolant pressure test will be the key, I think.

I think i figured out the fuel pump, there was a loose connection on the suction side, and it will now hold vacuum, so I think it will be OK. Coolant system tester due in today.

 

[WildEarp]

OK, Coolant System Test went good. I have a very slight leak from the water pump or housing, but still I only lost maybe less than 1/4 PSI in 2 minutes. No water dripping out of the oil drain plug or anything like that. I pressurized the oil pressure fitting and saw no rise in coolant system pressure, even with my hand over the valve cover breather (only way to get a decent amount of pressure). So I think I can assume it was just CONDENSATION at this point, at least until I run it again and make sure Im not getting anything weird like bubbles in tne radiator, or steam out the headers, right?

 

[oldbee]

‘ X-d ‘ fingers. Did you ever see a bunch of water when draining the oil the last time? Usually it separates out and is first to come out of oil pan if it sat for a day or so.

 

[WildEarp]

‘ X-d ‘ fingers. Did you ever see a bunch of water when draining the oil the last time? Usually it separates out and is first to come out of oil pan if it sat for a day or so.

No, but it didn't sit for a day or too before I drained it. I saw a little brown/white swirl it in, but mostly it just looked like assembly lube contaminated oil. I have all the used oil still thats been sitting for a few days in a jug, and pumped some out from the very bottom and its just oil. If there is any water, Its a very small amount, but like I said, it only ran for a few mintues. But the dip stick had about an inch of mayonnaise on the end.

Im starting to think I just freaked out over nothing.

 

[khryslerkid]

Did you pressurize each cylinder?

 

[WildEarp]

No, I dont have a way to do so. I dont have a leak down tester, and I cant get my air nozzle in some of the spark plug holes due to header clearance (or lack there of).

 

[khryslerkid]

No, I dont have a way to do so. I dont have a leak down tester, and I cant get my air nozzle in some of the spark plug holes due to header clearance (or lack there of).

If you have a compression tester with the hose you could rig one up.

 

[WildEarp]

Do you think there could be enough water getting into the cylinder and past the rings down into the oil to cause the mayo, without steam coming from the exhaust (and in only a few minutes of running)?