Procharged 440?

[Average Joe]

Hey Mike, the rear V-groove on the pulley runs the alternator and water pump.The front V-groove on the pulley would be where you could run a power steering pump if wanted. The crank pulley is about 12mm past the bolts on the water pump pulley.It's going to be tight but you guys will get it to fit.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Alright,

For once I can report I got some decisions made today. My buddy came over that will be doing most of the work and looking at the clearance to the rad fans we can keep the fans but going to scrap the pulleys I have and have some new one's machined.

Hoping we can clock the Procharger in the angle we're looking for and this is where we're a bit stuck but possibly make some sort of gasket to push up against the 6 pak hood snorkel and draw our air in from there? The alternative seems to be the fender well and I'm just not keen on that idea with the crap that can get kicked up. There's plenty of room for the IC will just likely ditch the hood latch as I'll have pins anyways.

Aside from that looks like the car is headed to his shop mid Feb and will be getting started with the first bit on the plan which is to fit up the T56 and get our angles right then work forward from there.

 

[Average Joe]

Awesome! looking forward to seeing it come together.

 

[747mopar]

Great to hear, can't wait to see... drive it haha. Just might have to make Canada part of our plans again with the new added excuse. Man is it going to be a monster!

 

[HYRDGOON]

Well the install is finally happening after I've been building the pieces of the project with your help for quite some time.

Huge thanks to all the members in this thread that took the time to educate me especially all the questions answered by Average Joe and Hemirunner.

I'll try and update with pics whenever I can get to the shop to snap them.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Hey Hyrdgoon, PLEASE check out theturboforums.com! If you need tuning advice (which is the most critical aspect of a F/I build), there is seriously no better forum. Supercharging and turbocharging have nearly identical requirements.

A few quick tips;

Intake:
You may want to invest in an Extreme Velocity/CSU carb bonnet, please don't run just any bonnet (even one built by procharger) with a F/I build. Bonnet needs to be clocked at either 6 or 12. You will thank me when you begin to start tuning later.
Your A2A intercooler should work, I went to A2W to cool the IAT down @ idle during traffic.
Race parts solutions carries the most F/I specific parts, such as couplers, pipes, and clamps. They also have some of the best budget BOV's and WG's.
Fuel system:
best pump for the money is the Walbro GL392. Two of these pumps will give you around 510LPH of 'reliable' fuel flow for $200. Wire one to run full time, another via manual toggle.
Feed line from tank should be around 3/8-1/2", return line around 5/8-3/4". Return line should be on top of tank.
Use an Aeromotive Boost Referenced Fuel Pressure Regulator. Fuel PSI should increase 1psi per # of boost.
Purchase a used CSU blow through (they are really inexpensive on theturboforums classifieds or similar) or use Hanger18 mods to a Holley.
Wideband gauge is a must, there are a lot of brands out there, Innovate makes a good one.
Ignition:
TIMING RETARD IS A MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lock out your distributor. With a 6530 (or programmable 7-series), total @ 30-32* for pump fuel and create your own timing curve with the ignition box.
Along with this, you'll need a 2-bar MAP sensor, MSD sells one for the 6530 around $80. This allows you to pull timing under boost.
If you don't want to do any of this, lock your distributor out @ 20* and tune from their, drive-ability will suffer.

6-8 psi on pump fuel is safe with 9.0-9.5:1 CR (aluminum heads). Anything more, run a meth/water kit (70%-80% water/20%-30% meth ratio-remember carbs can't tune on the fly). You should be able to run a few more PSI with meth on pump fuel, may be able to get by with more timing as well. I read the post you found about 'under 11:1cr and 12psi' without intercooling or meth injection... yeah, right.. Who's paying for the pistons after a few meltdown on the first test run?

 

[HYRDGOON]

Thanks Sweet5ltr,

All good advice and I'm a bit ahead of you on some of those items already done.

I have the Extreme Velocity Carb hat and have been dealing with Chase & Roger from C&S Specialties (Instead of CSU stuff) I have the 6AL-2 Programmable that was recommended by Chase as well.

I'm running both A2A (5" Core) as well as the Snow Performance Boost Cooler Stage 2 so feel that my current CR will be fine with the 10psi I'm shooting for (confirmed on here as well as by Chase and Roger)

Aside from that my entire fuel system is off Joe's car which we've seen put down impressive numbers so I'm confident I have the right parts for the job.

As far as tuning goes the guy that does my install has quite a bit of experience with boosted applications so feeling pretty good about that too,

Here are some update pics of fit up and intercooler mods. We're going to scrap the brackets I have as we want the Procharger slightly set back from it's current spot and have a new crank pulley machined. The shop didn't like the Ports being on the bottom of the IC for where we want to run the charge piping so it has been re-worked as well to 90 through the rad support.

Cheers!



We've created a shroud between the grille and rad supports to serve as a mount for the IC as well as an air dam to keep as much air to the IC and Rad as possible

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Thanks Sweet5ltr,

All good advice and I'm a bit ahead of you on some of those items already done.

I have the Extreme Velocity Carb hat and have been dealing with Chase & Roger from C&S Specialties (Instead of CSU stuff) I have the 6AL-2 Programmable that was recommended by Chase as well.

I'm running both A2A (5" Core) as well as the Snow Performance Boost Cooler Stage 2 so feel that my current CR will be fine with the 10psi I'm shooting for (confirmed on here as well as by Chase and Roger)

Aside from that my entire fuel system is off Joe's car which we've seen put down impressive numbers so I'm confident I have the right parts for the job.

As far as tuning goes the guy that does my install has quite a bit of experience with boosted applications so feeling pretty good about that too,

Here are some update pics of fit up and intercooler mods. We're going to scrap the brackets I have as we want the Procharger slightly set back from it's current spot and have a new crank pulley machined. The shop didn't like the Ports being on the bottom of the IC for where we want to run the charge piping so it has been re-worked as well to 90 through the rad support.

Cheers!

View attachment 312369View attachment 312370View attachment 312371View attachment 312372View attachment 312373View attachment 312374

We've created a shroud between the grille and rad supports to serve as a mount for the IC as well as an air dam to keep as much air to the IC and Rad as possible

No problem Hyrdgoon, just trying to give out some tips that I've learned along the way. I didn't have the time to read the entire thread, so it looks like i've overlapped on some topics you already had covered. Good luck on your build, it seems like you've been getting some great advice so far.

 

[HYRDGOON]

No problem Hyrdgoon, just trying to give out some tips that I've learned along the way. I didn't have the time to read the entire thread, so it looks like i've overlapped on some topics you already had covered. Good luck on your build, it seems like you've been getting some great advice so far.

Trust me 5Ltr I appreciate every word of tips and advice on here!

Thanks!!

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Your air-dam mod looks excellent, I may need to build one in the future. Just checked out your build thread as well, and I'm very impressed.

You're going to love the supercharger once it's installed.. :3gears:


I would have purchased an off-the-shelf Paxton supercharger if they would have released a kit sooner :VB toast:

It took me one month from start to finish once I received all my parts. Another six months to sort out nearly all of the small gremlins that popped up! Honestly, I'm still sorting out issues two years later.. Only downside of boost is.. Well.. There is no downside!!! Can't wait to see your build on the road.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Thanks 5ltr. That's why I post everything up to that thread if there's anything people can use the way I've gained inspiration from others.

Is there any one thread with pics and specs of your build. Would love to see more of it!

If not if you could start a thread in this section that would be awesome

The guy doing my work has quite a bit of experience with boosted applications and access to a dyno for tuning so I'm hoping for the best. Just over the winter while I've dropped by there was a Procharged 71 split bumper, procharged 89 Vette and a twin turbo 69 Camaro. All have put down nice numbers and were previous builds so very drivable

 

[HYRDGOON]

Here's the cam specs I was given by Adam at Comp:

It will be a custom grind on a 3 bolt core using our XFI hydraulic roller lobes.




23-000-9. 13083B/3039B. 238/248 [email protected], .545/.543 lift (1.5 rocker ratio), 115LSA +4 degrees of advance.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Here's the cam specs I was given by Adam at Comp:

It will be a custom grind on a 3 bolt core using our XFI hydraulic roller lobes.




23-000-9. 13083B/3039B. 238/248 [email protected], .545/.543 lift (1.5 rocker ratio), 115LSA +4 degrees of advance.

.

115LSA will make it sound like it's bone stock, that's the only downfall to F/I specific grinds. Why the switch to Hyd. Roller? Seems they have a terrible track record in non-OE roller engines due to improper oiling (BBM especially).

 

[Average Joe]

.

115LSA will make it sound like it's bone stock, that's the only downfall to F/I specific grinds. Why the switch to Hyd. Roller? Seems they have a terrible track record in non-OE roller engines due to improper oiling (BBM especially).

Agreed! I had to change mine to solid due to the lifters loosing pressure when the aluminum block reached operating temp.But a lot of people run the retrofit hydraulic roller lifters in a cast iron block with success.

 

[Tzclark]

I am not sure if I agree with the parrallel pumps. His pump can support his fuel needs at 2/3 capacity. I am not an expert with force induction but it seems risky to have two pumps not working in parrallel at all times. If by chance he were to accidentally forget to turn on the second pump he could lean the motor out which would be bad.

i am currently leaning towards building my motor as an e85 and run a flex fuel sensor. I will only be running one pump and a fuel line the size of a garden hose.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Tzclark,

A GL392 (Walbro 255LPH) is actually rated;
220 LPH @ 45PSI (60GPH)
275 LPH @ 6PSI. (73GPH)

A single Walbro GL392 in a carb (not EFI) application is good for over 700HP. Fuel pumps are constantly running at 100% duty cycle, it's great to have a backup.

Then again, an Aeromotive A1000 is a great choice as well. You're down to a single pump however, and a fuel pump controller is recommended for the street.

I run both of my pumps, not sure why I originally wired them separately, but probably to keep the fuel cool during street driving (twin pumps, 2x heat dispersion).

1/2" fuel line is around the largest you'll find on any street or strip car, and it'll support anything in the 9' second bracket. A waste to run anything larger than that, E85 requires around 20% more fuel so a -10 an line may be necessary on a high HP application.

 

[HYRDGOON]

.

115LSA will make it sound like it's bone stock, that's the only downfall to F/I specific grinds. Why the switch to Hyd. Roller? Seems they have a terrible track record in non-OE roller engines due to improper oiling (BBM especially).

Thanks Sweet5ltr. Losing the lopey idle is something that I have a hard time dealing with but I guess I'm trading it for crunching blower noice and BOV so that kind of helps lol.

In regards to the cam spec it was pretty close to Joe's and so it seems about right to me and I know blower cams usually are around 114 LSA.

Curious about the specific reference to oiling issues with the Hyd. Roller in BBM. This isn't something I am familiar with so if you could elaborate I'd appreciate it.


Oh and the pump I'm running is straight off another members car (Average Joe) it's the Magnafuel Pro-tuner MP4301

 

[69 GTX]

Nice "Fer Racin Progess"

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Thanks Sweet5ltr. Losing the lopey idle is something that I have a hard time dealing with but I guess I'm trading it for crunching blower noice and BOV so that kind of helps lol.

In regards to the cam spec it was pretty close to Joe's and so it seems about right to me and I know blower cams usually are around 114 LSA.

Curious about the specific reference to oiling issues with the Hyd. Roller in BBM. This isn't something I am familiar with so if you could elaborate I'd appreciate it.


Oh and the pump I'm running is straight off another members car (Average Joe) it's the Magnafuel Pro-tuner MP4301

I stand corrected Hyrdgoon. I think you'll be fine with hydraulic roller 'retro-fit' lifters from a reputable company. Most of the problems I've read about in the past seem to be sorted out. I believe those previous problems were noted in the Direct Connection Performance Manual. Just don't forget your bronze drive gear.

You're set on the fuel pump, that is an absolute beast. Vent line should be around -8 AN for the fuel cell, probably requires an -10 an to the pump, -8 an to the carb i'm sure.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Cheers Sweet5ltr :VB toast:

So here's a not so performance related question. My D1X is pretty worn looking and not so pretty. I'm going for kind of a "Racecar" feel underhood and the new pulley's, brackets and a few other goodies will get black anodized. Thinking about painting the head unit and did a google search and found out it's pretty common. The popular choice seems to be the VHT high temp but VHT also offers a Black Wrinkle high temp and I think that would look pretty slick. Thoughts?