Steering not centered

[jeremya72]

Howdy everyone, I just got done fixing a steering slop problem on my '72 road runner and everything is working well. However, I have run into another issue and I'm not sure if it's related or not to the work I just did to the car. When I have the wheels pointed straight ahead the steering wheel is not centered and I can turn the wheel 2 turns one direction and 1.5 turns the other. I just replaced the steering column, but It seems to me that it only goes together one way. The pot coupler has a master spline and so does the steering wheel. Is this an alignment issue? It seems to me that with the tires pointed straight ahead, the steering box is not centered in it's travel. The driver's side tie rod is adjusted as short as it can go and the pass side one is about 2 inches longer. Just had it aligned at Les Schwab a couple months ago. Am I on the right track here?

 

[5wndwcpe]

If you have the steering wheel and coupler on correctly (which sounds like you do) I'd check to see if the tie rod adj. sleeves are centered.

 

[jeremya72]

They are not centered. It is way offset to one side. That's why I'm thinking its just an alignment issue. Seems like the dude who aligned it last time would have told me that he had to make one tie rod 2" longer than the other to make it drive straight with the steering wheel centered! The old column was from a '73 and it did not have a master spline on the coupler, so I assume that is why the steering wheel was not aligned with center on the steering box.

 

[5wndwcpe]

They are not centered. It is way offset to one side. That's why I'm thinking its just an alignment issue. Seems like the dude who aligned it last time would have told me that he had to make one tie rod 2" longer than the other to make it drive straight with the steering wheel centered! The old column was from a '73 and it did not have a master spline on the coupler, so I assume that is why the steering wheel was not aligned with center on the steering box.

Pretty much what I was thinking. The last column was installed incorrectly and they compensated for it with the tie rods.

 

[D575]

Was the pitman arm pointing straight back ?

 

[dryheat]

If the pitman arm is in the correct location just adjust your tie rods so they are about equal on each side and adjust the toe to be close ... then pop off the steering wheel and center it ... take it in for an alignment.

That's what I would do anyway.

 

[kdtjb]

My tie rods are not the same length. If I make them the same, it turns sharper one direction than the other. It is that way on 2 cars.

 

[D575]

set the pitman arm straight back, be sure the idler arm points straight back also . now sight the inside of the tires toward the back wheels. see which side is out the most and adjust the tie rods. then check toe . repeat the steps until you see the same amount while sighting off the front toward the back tires. check toe with tape measure on inside of wheels front and back [ of wheel ] you want about 1/16 " to 1/8" toe in, depending how loose your front end is.

[ when you sight off the front tires line up both sides of the front wheel and see how much of the rear shows] I hope that makes sense. I have all the stuff to make it easy, but you'll probably have to get someone to hold the tape for you.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Before you do anything at all, make sure the gearbox is in correct phase with the steering shaft and make sure the pitman arm is on correctly. You weren't very specific about the work done. From the sound of it, certainly at the very least, the tie rods are ill adjusted. But there could be more to it.

 

[jeremya72]

The car is real low and it's hard to tell if the pitman arm and idler arm are pointing straight back, especially since the pitman arm is curved. I'll have to get it up on some ramps and check again. It looks pretty close when I center the steering between locks, but also pretty close when I put the wheels straight. The difference here is 1/4 turn at the steering wheel. Not sure how much change that makes at the pitman arm.

 

[kdtjb]

I'm still watching with a learning eye.

 

[jeremya72]

Before you do anything at all, make sure the gearbox is in correct phase with the steering shaft and make sure the pitman arm is on correctly. You weren't very specific about the work done. From the sound of it, certainly at the very least, the tie rods are ill adjusted. But there could be more to it.

As far a I can tell the pitman arm only goes on one way and its the same with the column coupler. Both input and output shafts on the steering box have a master spline. It's been a couple years since I replaced the pitman arm, but I just put the column in yesterday and it definitely only went on the one way. Also, if I turn the steering wheel so that it is directly between lock and lock then the wheel is at 12 o-clock and I can turn it 1.75 turns either way. I have to turn the wheel 1/4 turn to the right to drive straight though.

- - - Updated - - -

My tie rods are not the same length. If I make them the same, it turns sharper one direction than the other. It is that way on 2 cars.

Good point. I'm not expecting them to be the same, but they are really different from left to right. Off by about 1 3/4" or so.

 

[D575]

Work on getting the wheels in line with the rears, making sure that the steering gear is centered - the arms pointing straight toward the back. and the toe set. dont worry about the steering wheel yet. I've seen cars on the rack that were blasted on one side or the other and dogtracked down the road.
No offence to Les schwab, the snot nosed kid who's at the alignment rack , probably has never even seen a car like yours. He just might have screwed up on the settings. if you're doing an alignment, and you have to screw one all the way in, and the other all the way out. it's time to pull out a tape measure and figure out why.

If it was just to center the wheel , the guy should back to busting tires. there's another way to do that if you don't want to replace bent parts or get into some frame work.

 

[dryheat]

Since one or your adjuster sleeves is turned all the way in ... try this ...

Someone on the site should be able to give you a rough measurement from their RR as to the overall length of the tie rod assembly from each side. Once you have that info then loosen and adjust yours to be close to that. Once that is done point your wheels straight ahead and put a piece of tape at the top of the steering wheel no matter if it is straight or not. Then check for the lock to lock. You'll probably find that it is much better than before.

Good Luck ...

 

[D575]

The measurement is 12 1/2" center to center. that doesn't mean your fronts are in line with the rear. but it should give you your extra 1/2 turn.
If you take it back to Les schwab, you should watch the guy, he probably hasn't ever seen a car with torsion bars. you have to jack it up to make an adjustment then let it down to take a reading. if he doesn't bounce it up and down quite a bit the reading will be off .

 

[kdtjb]

Mine are different by 1 3/4" too, but they still are threaded in the sleeve plenty.

 

[D575]

Mine are different by 1 3/4" too, but they still are threaded in the sleeve plenty.

These cars are old and most have been through the mill, multiple accidents, twists, uneven dimensions. wrong or bent parts . most of the time you have to be creative, or cheat , when you align them. just because the sheet metal look good doesn't mean it's straight .

 

[jeremya72]

Wow, it's been a while since I visited this thread. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who chimed in and give a status update. I readjusted the tie rod ends and got the wheel centered. I then tried to do the sector shaft adjustment, but still had a lot of slop. Probably didn't help that the box had been off center for at least 30,000 miles. There was just a freaky dead spot in the steering. So I finally bit the bullet and took the box to firm feel to have it rebuilt. Hopefully I'll have it back in the next week or so and I'll let you all know how it worked out. Also, I just did the adjustment by eye. It's close, but I think I'll have the alignment redone. Anybody know a good place in the Seattle area? The kid at Les Schwab said he had never done a car with torsion bars before. Not very reassuring!

 

[AMX364]

All right, I think you need to correct what the problem is. What is the problem area? Do not know yet, my 2 cents worth and having done alignments for 1 or 2 years(20) is to start at the basics. Center the gearbox in the center of its travel, without pitman arm attached. Center steering wheel to box ( here I think the real problem is). Rough set tie rod ends to same length and connect pitman arm to gearbox. Should be either toe-in or toe-out(check if all tie rod ends are same length ie. incorrect tie rod). After years of incorrect repairs, sometimes the parts are not assembled correctly. Always start with the gearbox and work from there.

 

[jeremya72]

Will do AMX364. Just got the box in the mail, hopefully I can install it this week and check it all out.