b5 blue
Member
Thinking about installing a gear vendors overdrive in my 71 roadrunner. Anyone install 1 ? Pros and cons.
gear vendors over drive! Worth the money?
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RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
The only con I've read about is price. All I've seen has been GOOD feedback, so they are probably worth it.
When I finally get to restore my 70 Road Runner, I will put an overdrive in it since I am planning to drive it quite a bit, including highways.
Forgetting about price for a moment, my top choice based on what I had seen WAS the Gear Vendors overdrive (about $2900). With a 4 speed, it would bolt in replacing the trans tailshaft. According to what I read, the only modifications needed are a possible dent in the transmission tunnel, as well as a shortened drive shaft. My only concern I had was that the overdrive was .78 to one - not super steep. This means that 4.10's drive like 3.20. Not bad. Also, all I have heard about them is that they are essentially bullet proof.
...But then I heard about the Passion 5 speed overdrive. It is called an A-855 and literally bolts in place of a A-833 4 speed. Zero other modifications. It is VERY expensive at around $4500, but it is really cool sounding in my opinion. Also the final drive ratio is .70 to one. This means those same 4.10's drive like a 2.87. This means you lower your effective RPM even more when on the highway.
Please note that I do not have any personal experience with either, so the above is what I have found based on research, not based on actual installation and driving with either...
If price were no object (and I am not even sure you can get the A-855 yet), then IMHO the A-855 is best. Second place would be the Gear Vendors. When you factor price in, the decision gets harder...
Forgetting about price for a moment, my top choice based on what I had seen WAS the Gear Vendors overdrive (about $2900). With a 4 speed, it would bolt in replacing the trans tailshaft. According to what I read, the only modifications needed are a possible dent in the transmission tunnel, as well as a shortened drive shaft. My only concern I had was that the overdrive was .78 to one - not super steep. This means that 4.10's drive like 3.20. Not bad. Also, all I have heard about them is that they are essentially bullet proof.
...But then I heard about the Passion 5 speed overdrive. It is called an A-855 and literally bolts in place of a A-833 4 speed. Zero other modifications. It is VERY expensive at around $4500, but it is really cool sounding in my opinion. Also the final drive ratio is .70 to one. This means those same 4.10's drive like a 2.87. This means you lower your effective RPM even more when on the highway.
Please note that I do not have any personal experience with either, so the above is what I have found based on research, not based on actual installation and driving with either...
If price were no object (and I am not even sure you can get the A-855 yet), then IMHO the A-855 is best. Second place would be the Gear Vendors. When you factor price in, the decision gets harder...
wedgie
Well-Known Member
What about an aftermarket 5 or 6 speed with deeper gears and a 1:1 high gear ratio? Then you could run 2.94's or 2.76's and still have the torque multiplication in the lower gears.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rmg-7031710c/overview/make/dodge
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rmg-7031710c/overview/make/dodge
If anyone here has the new Passon in their car and working let me know. Like the new Keisler, all hype - for years. And no product.
Relax360
Well-Known Member
i am not promoting Kiesler in any way but the new SS 700 are out there.... a guy over on moparts got his and installed it. but he was lucky in that he can fix what kiesler messed up. I would check it out.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7301037&an=0&page=5#Post7301037
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7301037&an=0&page=5#Post7301037
STROKED71
Active Member
im installing a gv right now in my 71 sat auto, i think its a good deal for an od
YY1
Well-Known Member
As far as a true bolt on goes it's almost the only game in town.
Any other auto trans solution (or the keisler manual for that matter) require LOTS of metal cutting and fabrication work.
If you have a maual trans car (or are prepared to spend the extra $,$$$ on the conversion) I agree about the Passion unit, but AFAIK, they are not in production yet.
BTW, street price on ebay and CL for conplete used units is about $1-1.5K, but finding the correct tailshaft adaptor is difficult and the GV exchange program rapes the customer IMO (you get about 20% credit on the exchange for a somewhat over priced $600 flanged aluminum tube).
$.02
Any other auto trans solution (or the keisler manual for that matter) require LOTS of metal cutting and fabrication work.
If you have a maual trans car (or are prepared to spend the extra $,$$$ on the conversion) I agree about the Passion unit, but AFAIK, they are not in production yet.
BTW, street price on ebay and CL for conplete used units is about $1-1.5K, but finding the correct tailshaft adaptor is difficult and the GV exchange program rapes the customer IMO (you get about 20% credit on the exchange for a somewhat over priced $600 flanged aluminum tube).
$.02
beezee
Well-Known Member
SMR transmissions offers the "shortie" Gear Vendor overdrives for Mopar automatic transmissions.I agree with Rusty as they are not cheap,but then I have over $2500 invested in a multi port Fast EZ fuel injection kit to be installed this spring.
http://smrtrans.tripod.com/smrtransmissionsintro/id32.html
http://smrtrans.tripod.com/smrtransmissionsintro/id32.html
The current issue of Mopar Action magazine has a short writeup on this subject in the tech section, p. 92. They list for an automatic OD tranny - A518A with block adapter (requires major surgery), Keisler bolt-in 4L60 (just a minor floor massage from what I've read), TCI's 6X 6-speed auto (tough to install), or the GV OD (they state "weird u-joint angles - I know you're supposed to re-adjust the pinion angle after install).
I'm in the same boat and was thinking the 4L60 might be the way to go. Another member on here on another thread has a GV and cautions that it may not live up to your expectations if you have a 3.91 or 3.55 gear due to the reduction ratio. I think he has 4.10 or 4.30 gears and likes it with those.
See here: http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...nsmissions-for-a-70-RR&highlight=Gear+vendors
I'm in the same boat and was thinking the 4L60 might be the way to go. Another member on here on another thread has a GV and cautions that it may not live up to your expectations if you have a 3.91 or 3.55 gear due to the reduction ratio. I think he has 4.10 or 4.30 gears and likes it with those.
See here: http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...nsmissions-for-a-70-RR&highlight=Gear+vendors
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
I have a few GV's in different apps, have one that is over 20 yrs old, and as a installer i have done many over the years in many different uses. Other trans are only a od gear added at the end.
The gv is a gear you can use between every gear you have now in your trans.
You'll find it much better than a 4sp or 5spd swap, when you can split 1st, 2nd, and then 3rd gear depending which trans you have.
May be a little more but it is another gear after your 3 giving you more options.
The gv is a gear you can use between every gear you have now in your trans.
You'll find it much better than a 4sp or 5spd swap, when you can split 1st, 2nd, and then 3rd gear depending which trans you have.
May be a little more but it is another gear after your 3 giving you more options.
From what you've seen, will it work just fine with a column shift 727 and 3.55 gears backing my 451 motor?
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
It will work fine. I have one in my power ram 418" manual np435/205 more than 20 yrs now not one issue and my power ram works, another in my mag 500" A&A 727 rmvb, another in my RR 440-6 mvb.
The only product i sell and instal that has no issues and faulty bs for more than 15 yrs.
I have customers with them behind killer diesels, tow trucks, large rv's, many street and race cars.
The only issue i ever seen was i had a customer by one from me and he installed it, they didn't do the 4x lock out and the GF drove it and they had the GV on auto and it came on while she had it in 4x and after some time she wound up cooking it.
But that was there fault for not putting in the 4x lock out switch.
You will be able to use it in every gear and find it is useful that way, especially when keeping the motor in the power and racing, you may find that you may want to go up in the rear gear.
,
The only product i sell and instal that has no issues and faulty bs for more than 15 yrs.
I have customers with them behind killer diesels, tow trucks, large rv's, many street and race cars.
The only issue i ever seen was i had a customer by one from me and he installed it, they didn't do the 4x lock out and the GF drove it and they had the GV on auto and it came on while she had it in 4x and after some time she wound up cooking it.
But that was there fault for not putting in the 4x lock out switch.
You will be able to use it in every gear and find it is useful that way, especially when keeping the motor in the power and racing, you may find that you may want to go up in the rear gear.
,
YY1
Well-Known Member
That makes all those "throwaway" motor home tailshafts suddenly more valuable, doesn't it?
wedgie
Well-Known Member
I believe that there is a 3.09 ratio first gear available to replace the stock 2.66 in a stock 833 trans.
Do the math and you'll find that you can run a pretty small rear gear and still have the out of the hole grunt and maintain 4th gear low RPM cruising.
I would guess that Brewers would be a good place to either confirm or shoot down this theory.
Do the math and you'll find that you can run a pretty small rear gear and still have the out of the hole grunt and maintain 4th gear low RPM cruising.
I would guess that Brewers would be a good place to either confirm or shoot down this theory.
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there cheap compared to one of these, the TCI 6 speed programmable auto $8200
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Holy CRAP...Eight grand for a transmission???
I run a Gear Vendors unit in the Charger. I'm running a 493 with a 727 and 3.91 gears. The .78 OD ratio drops it to 3.04. I'd like a bigger ratio drop than .78, but that is the only way that they are.
This is the only OD I have ever tried in a car, so I cannot comment on personal experience with other options. I have been quite happy with mine. The rpm drop at freeway speeds is nice. Its also good to know that lower cruising rpms are extending the life of the engine.
ONE gripe about the GV though: It does NOT disengage automatically. If I am travelling down the road in overdrive then slow to a stop, it is STILL in OD. When leaving from a stop, I am in 1st/OD inless I hit the switch to disengage. I sometimes get caught at stoplights feeling like the motor has lost 40 HP.
I run a Gear Vendors unit in the Charger. I'm running a 493 with a 727 and 3.91 gears. The .78 OD ratio drops it to 3.04. I'd like a bigger ratio drop than .78, but that is the only way that they are.
This is the only OD I have ever tried in a car, so I cannot comment on personal experience with other options. I have been quite happy with mine. The rpm drop at freeway speeds is nice. Its also good to know that lower cruising rpms are extending the life of the engine.
ONE gripe about the GV though: It does NOT disengage automatically. If I am travelling down the road in overdrive then slow to a stop, it is STILL in OD. When leaving from a stop, I am in 1st/OD inless I hit the switch to disengage. I sometimes get caught at stoplights feeling like the motor has lost 40 HP.
696pack
Well-Known Member
Gear Vendor is the ONLY option if you are running an auto trans, if you are running a manual trans then you have options.
Everyone forgets about Passon's 4 speed overdrive (which is what I have in my 1966 Charger) and is a GREAT transmission option.
I don't get all of the hoopla for a 5 or 6 speed trans in our old cars.
There are only two reasons to have either one and that is for less wear and tear on the engine at highway speeds and maybe some increased mileage. You will NEVER see enough savings in mileage to overcome the cost of conversion with the lowest price of any of these options with the amount of miles we put on these old cars, so don't do it with just that in mind. To me there is VERY little advantage to go to the 5 speed and especially with the expected cost of the 5 speed which is still not released for sale. I purchased the 4 speed OD gear set For $1845. plus shipping and the only other thing I had to buy was a new 18 spline clutch disc as the new gear set has the Hemi trans gears and output shaft. I installed it in my existing 4 speed case. I used the existing shifter and linkage and passengers have no idea that the trans is different at all unless they happen to be watching the tach when I shift into 4th. In my case with my 3.54 Dana rear and 28" high tires it brings the adjusted rear end ratio down to a 2.83 ratio which is substancial. The gear spread from 1st thru 3rd is very close to the same as a Torqueflite auto and if you are running the 1/4 mile you run it in the first three gears only.
Compare it to the cost and extra costs associated with the Keisler conversion and it just makes no sence to me at all. In Mopars you have to make serious floor pan cutting sometimes including the cross members, buy a new shifter and complete clutch. WAY too much money in my opinion.
Below are links to the Passon 4 speed OD and the 5 speed OD so you can compare the differences for yourselves.
Here is the link to the specs on the 4 speed
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf
Here is the link to the 5 speed.
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_5-Speed_Flyer_2010-11-18.pdf
Everyone forgets about Passon's 4 speed overdrive (which is what I have in my 1966 Charger) and is a GREAT transmission option.
I don't get all of the hoopla for a 5 or 6 speed trans in our old cars.
There are only two reasons to have either one and that is for less wear and tear on the engine at highway speeds and maybe some increased mileage. You will NEVER see enough savings in mileage to overcome the cost of conversion with the lowest price of any of these options with the amount of miles we put on these old cars, so don't do it with just that in mind. To me there is VERY little advantage to go to the 5 speed and especially with the expected cost of the 5 speed which is still not released for sale. I purchased the 4 speed OD gear set For $1845. plus shipping and the only other thing I had to buy was a new 18 spline clutch disc as the new gear set has the Hemi trans gears and output shaft. I installed it in my existing 4 speed case. I used the existing shifter and linkage and passengers have no idea that the trans is different at all unless they happen to be watching the tach when I shift into 4th. In my case with my 3.54 Dana rear and 28" high tires it brings the adjusted rear end ratio down to a 2.83 ratio which is substancial. The gear spread from 1st thru 3rd is very close to the same as a Torqueflite auto and if you are running the 1/4 mile you run it in the first three gears only.
Compare it to the cost and extra costs associated with the Keisler conversion and it just makes no sence to me at all. In Mopars you have to make serious floor pan cutting sometimes including the cross members, buy a new shifter and complete clutch. WAY too much money in my opinion.
Below are links to the Passon 4 speed OD and the 5 speed OD so you can compare the differences for yourselves.
Here is the link to the specs on the 4 speed
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf
Here is the link to the 5 speed.
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_5-Speed_Flyer_2010-11-18.pdf
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