Vin sequence number

[prostk]

1970 Super Bee I understand the frist part of the vin and it all matches for the car untill the last 6 numbers witch should be what number it was off the line I think? if someone could break this down for me i'd appreciate it (101568).

 

[prostk]

From what I found 101568 means this was the 1,568 car off the line? Is that for all superbees because for a 383,4sp coupe they only made 1,336. I could be wrong on all of this thats why im asking. Thanks

 

[super-bee_ski]

To answer your question: VIN sequential numbers is ALL produced.


The Fender tag is what determines "specifics"
Such as:
N96 Air Grabber
A04 69-71 Basic (Radio) Group
A12 440 Six Pack (69 1/2 only)
A31 69-71 High Performance Axle Package w/3.91 Ratio
A34 Super Track Pack with 4:10 (69 & 70)
A33 Track Pack with 3:54/ ratio
A36 Performance Axle package with 3:55
B42 70 only Front Disc Brakes w/H.D. 11" RR Drum
B11 70-71 H.D. Drum Brakes 11" - Auto Adj. (B+C+E Body)
B31 69-70 H.D. Drum Brakes 11" - Manual Adj. (B+C Body
A60 71 only 4-Speed Transmission Special Package
A55 70-71 Custom Trim Package
A44 70-71 Rear Window Louver Package

NOTE: these are just a "FEW" of the options your car could have.
There are many more.
Some cars (Like my 1970 Challenger R/T SE 440 car SOLD yrs ago) had 2 fender tags because option list was too long for 1 tag.

THIS option coding is what makes a car RARE.
Now...get this....
Not everytrhing RARE equates to "Expensive and Desireable"
Some one could find a 4 door Plymouth, BASIC B-body, 1972, Green inside and out, 3-speed 727 trans (904?) and no Power steering, no Power brakes and no radio and no AC.
They may have made 12 with this option list but, I wouldnt purchase the car.

Hoping this helps you out....
"super-bee_ski"

 

[satman72]

My understanding is that it's just a line number. It's nothing important unless the car is somehow unique and this number provides proof of an earlier build.

 

[ODZKing]

If I am reading your question I believe you answered yourself.
Yes, Sequence Number: 101568 = 1568th Vehical Built.
Now, keep in mind that is EVERY vehicle out of the plant. They may have been producing 2 lines and Charger and Coronets as well as SuperBees, wagons, etc.
As stated, that number is not special unless you need to know a sequence for some reason.
Did that answer your question?

 

[prostk]

If I am reading your question I believe you answered yourself.
Yes, Sequence Number: 101568 = 1568th Vehical Built.
Now, keep in mind that is EVERY vehicle out of the plant. They may have been producing 2 lines and Charger and Coronets as well as SuperBees, wagons, etc.
As stated, that number is not special unless you need to know a sequence for some reason.
Did that answer your question?

Thanks that is what I was looking for I have the fender tag and build sheet so I know what my car has just trying to find out what the sequence numbers ment.

 

[super-bee_ski]

And...
That is why I stated:
The fender tag determines the specifics...

Second post asked "what made cars "low" production numbers....
Again, the fender tag options...

 

[69Coronetrt]

Thanks that is what I was looking for I have the fender tag and build sheet so I know what my car has just trying to find out what the sequence numbers meant.

The VIN is an administrative number unrelated to production. It does not signify XXXXX down the line.
VIN 100101 would have been the 100th VIN issued by the plant for that model year but the actual car may have been built several hundred units later.

 

[WileE]

The VIN is an administrative number unrelated to production. It does not signify XXXXX down the line.
VIN 100101 would have been the 100th VIN issued by the plant for that model year but the actual car may have been built several hundred units later.

Exactly. Thank you for saying what I was about to.

 

[Tempest 455]

Most VIN's mean nothing other than posted above.

However, mine is kind of cool because the last 3 digits are "383"!

 

[MoparHonda]

HMMMM. I think they all started with 100,000, so your car would be the 1,568th car off the line.

What's the build date? Shoule be early August.

 

[69Coronetrt]

HMMMM. I think they all started with 100,000, so your car would be the 1,568th car off the line.

Please see my comment above. The VIN has nothing to do with production. Cars were not built in sequential order.

When we count to figure out the size of a collection of objects, we count them as one, two, three, and so on. When we want to count something to get the sense of the position of the objects, we count them as first, second, third, and so on. In the first form of counting, numbers are said to be cardinal numbers. In the second form of counting, the numbers are considered as ordinal numbers.

Read more: http://www.differencebetween.com/di...numbers-and-vs-ordinal-numbers/#ixzz30b8X0Jo7

Calling a car the Xth of the line as indicated by the VIN would indicate VINs are ordinal numbers. They are not. VINs are cardinal numbers. They are just a number assigned to an object. Car #1, car #2, car #3, etc. Car #3 could have been built first, then car #1, then car #2.

 

[Redhorse719]

So at what point was a VIN assigned to a car?

 

[WileE]

A vin was assigned as a vehicle was configured for build, whether a sales bank, dealer ordered, or customer ordered, etc. It does not mean the sequence on the line.

 

[Coyoteduster]

A vin was assigned as a vehicle was configured for build, whether a sales bank, dealer ordered, or customer ordered, etc. It does not mean the sequence on the line.

Exactly, which is why the argument rages on about who owns the last Hemi car ever built. ;)

 

[69Coronetrt]

So at what point was a VIN assigned to a car?

Car makers are also huge administrative machines. Think of all the paper that had to be pushed at that time to record, track, build, bill, and ship a car correctly.

Here's a rough idea as to how things went....

Orders from dealers, sales bank and internal corporate orders were aggregated and sorted. Some coordination with Production was necessary to see what was on hand to build specify models. Orders were sorted by make and scheduled for a production day. At that point, the VIN was issued and tied to a specific Vehicle Order Number. (OK...here's 300 Plymouths and 200 dodges. We'll number these cars 100001-100301 and 100302-100502 and build them tomorrow) Once that was done, then you could process the broadcast sheet tying the VON and VIN to a specific car and then the associated fender tag.

Car 100001 was not necessary the first car assembled and out the door. Here's how that happened:

Let's pretend car 100001 was a Plymouth station wagon sent through Gate #1 (the jig used to help assemble the body in white). Let's say there are 50 station wagons scheduled to be assembled in that gate for that day. Call them cars with VINs 100001-100051. The welder breaks down and no cars are going to be going through that gate that day. The line doesn't stop and everybody goes home because the cars with the lowest VINs can't be built. That batch of cars will have to be rescheduled for another day.

Ten Road Runners are assembled in Gate 2. Call them cars 100052-100061. They go to the paint shop. All of them are supposed to be painted Rallye Green. We'll we're out of that color until the paint delivery guy shows up after lunch. The line doesn't stop because those cars can't be painted.

Gate three crew is an experienced crew. They kick out the first Dodge convertibles for the day (cars #100302-100322) in record time. They whisk them off to the paint shop where all are painted. Ok done. On to the trim shop. OK done. On to assembly. Ok done. These cars are completed ahead of time and are sitting in the transport lot ready to be shipped before Gate 1, where the cars with the lowest VINs are still waiting to be assembled, is even repaired.

A tremendous amount of labor, parts and assembly coordination is required to build a car. If there was one specific trim piece unavailable to finish the car, the car had to be set aside and the next one fell in line for assembly. You can't build them in order as you can't control the whole process to that level. Things happen.

 

[ChargerPilot]

Here's a rough idea as to how things went....
Orders from dealers, sales bank and internal corporate orders were aggregated and sorted. Some coordination with Production was necessary to see what was on hand to build specify models. Orders were sorted by make and scheduled for a production day. At that point, the VIN was issued and tied to a specific Vehicle Order Number. (OK...here's 300 Plymouths and 200 dodges. We'll number these cars 100001-100301 and 100302-100502 and build them tomorrow) Once that was done, then you could process the broadcast sheet tying the VON and VIN to a specific car and then the associated fender tag.

Hi 69Coronetrt,
I have two identical Chargers with consecutive VINs (ordered by the same dealer); however, the Charger with the lowest VIN has the higher Shipping Order number. Do you know the relationship between the VIN and SO NUM? I thought maybe the Shipping Order number was established when the dealer ordered the car and therefore the VIN would be correlated with the SO NUM? ...or was it that the VIN depended on the order in which some administrative person at the factory entered the car into the system?
Also, since these are identical cars (not like the examples above) wouldn't they have come down the same line together?
Thanks in advance.

 

[69Coronetrt]

Hi 69Coronetrt,
I have two identical Chargers with consecutive VINs (ordered by the same dealer); however, the Charger with the lowest VIN has the higher Shipping Order number. Do you know the relationship between the VIN and SO NUM? I thought maybe the Shipping Order number was established when the dealer ordered the car and therefore the VIN would be correlated with the SO NUM? ...or was it that the VIN depended on the order in which some administrative person at the factory entered the car into the system?
Also, since these are identical cars (not like the examples above) wouldn't they have come down the same line together?
Thanks in advance.

Here's a real rough example of how the VON is assigned for non-special order (i.e special paint), package (A12s, Daytonas, Superbirds, etc ) or other specialty VON (Police, taxi, dealer demo, etc) cars for 1968 and later.

December 15th. Regional Zone rep walks into dealership with Christmas tidings for the GM and Sales Manager of the dealership. Drops of a bottle of the owners favorite scotch. "Oh by the way, we've added some new options to the order sheets. Here are your new order pads. Start using them after the first of the year." Hands the order pads to the SM. Each pad has fifty order sheets for a Charger.

January 2nd. SM hands out the pads to salesman Bob. At the top of each pad is a six digit number; aka "the VON". The first sheet of the first pad is numbered 000001, the second is numbered 000002, the third sheet is numbered 000003 and so forth for about 50 sheets to a pad.

January 3rd- Customer comes in to order a new Charger. Bob sits down with sheet 000001 and fills out the order. Turns it in to the Sales Manager.

January 4th- Different customer comes in and orders a Charger exactly the same as the first person. Bob fills out sheet 000002 and gives it to the Sales Manager.

January 5th- Sales manager forwards all order sheets to the regional office. Sheets are sent to Headquarters and routed to plant. These two order sheets wind up at the Hamtramck plant. Orders are sorted internally and scheduled for production. At this point, the only unique identifier to each car for billing and scheduling the car is the VON. The VIN has not been assigned yet.

(alternatively, Bob is told to order some stock for the lot. Bob uses order sheet 000001 and 000002. He's in a hurry, is not creative and orders two cars alike. Turns them in.)

Sally at Hamtramck is in charge of assigning VIN numbers to cars. Sally has a stack of papers on her desk. She knows all the orders are there. Bill comes by and distracts her. The orders get knocked off the desk. She picks up the pile of papers and puts them back together roughly in the same manner but 000002 winds up on top of 000001. Any consecutive order of the order sheets at this point is irrelative. As long as she enters the orders and assigns a VIN, she's good. So car 000002 gets entered and assigned a VIN. She then enters the order for car 000001 and assigns it the next higher VIN. As long as the order was entered and a VIN assigned, she's done her job.

The orders get routed. The cars are built. Since they are going to the same end location, they try to keep the car production together to save on transport costs. So...the cars are built at roughly the same time so they can arrive at the dealership at the same time. They are not built sequentially.

One would expect to find consecutive VONs from the same dealership because the order pads would be numbered sequentially. As pads were disseminated from a regional office in somewhat of a large series, one should also expect to find similar VONs from a certain region.

At a recent car show, I saw a VON on a car. The owner knew the car came from Texas. Four cars down I saw a car with a VON ~200 larger from the first car. I asked the second owner if he knew the history and we ultimately determined his car came from the same region as the first, which is why the VONs were so close together. The dealerships could have been miles apart and received different pads but the VONs on the pads were in close proximity.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[ODZKing]

69coronetrt,
Similar note, I have a 73 Charger. It is/was a California car that made it's way to me via Indiana.
Since 73 information at the museum is n/a, I would love to find the original owner or even dealership. I have the build sheet.
I have tried the California DMV, they won't even answer me back and there is no number to call on their site.
So I guess my question is this, by the VON, is there a way to trace any further exactly where the car came from?

 

[69Coronetrt]

So I guess my question is this, by the VON, is there a way to trace any further exactly where the car came from?

Theoretically, yes.
Practically, it's difficult to impossible.

You'd have to do it by association to other cars. You'd have to find cars that have a VON in VERY close proximity, say within 10-15 numbers, AND have that car have a window sticker or some other documentation that shows what dealership the car came from. You'd have to find several cars that bracket your VON for confirmation. As you know from experience, cars travel the US. The cars that could help confirm yours may not even exist. Say your car was bracketed by four doors, wagons and /6 cars. Those cars could have been crushed a long time ago taking that association with them.

It's usually easier to try and trace previous owners.