Pulley Alignment Issues

[petieg383]

Here's the quick story:

Swapped out the gear drive for a timing chain on my 440, and I'm putting things back together. During disassembly, I found that the balancer had a huge crack in it and a chunk of it looked like it was about to fly off. Second, the crank pulley was really banged up which I knew already, so I replaced it. I bought a new balancer and pulley from 440Source. Now the Power Steering pulley and the crank pulley are out of alignment by about 1/2". Basically the PS Pump Pulley needs to move forward about 1/2" and all should be OK. It might have been a bit out of alignment before, but it wasn't noticeable. You can see that it's out of alignment now. The alternator/fan/crank alignment is fine however.

Is the PS Pulley on correctly? Do they make PS Pulley shims? Any other ideas? I'd hate to start replacing more parts so let me know if I've done something wrong. Especially since the PS Pump is working fine, doesn't leak, etc..

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

PS does not move,you need to get the right pullies or space them to fit the PS pump

 

[petieg383]

PS does not move,you need to get the right pullies or space them to fit the PS pump

I understand the PS brackets/pump doesn't move, but there has to be a way to adjust the pulley itself or swap a spacer in there. I have to assume that I'm using the right balancer and lower pulley, especially since both are from 440Source. At least they should be "matched". Both are "factory replacements".

If I'm going to space the lower pulley, it needs to move back into the engine more, and I'm pretty sure that's not possible. Catch my drift?

 

[khryslerkid]

So I guess the pully from 440 source doesn't match the one you took off? Or is the difference in the balancer?

 

[Yatzee]

Here's the quick story:

Swapped out the gear drive for a timing chain on my 440, and I'm putting things back together. During disassembly, I found that the balancer had a huge crack in it and a chunk of it looked like it was about to fly off. Second, the crank pulley was really banged up which I knew already, so I replaced it. I bought a new balancer and pulley from 440Source. Now the Power Steering pulley and the crank pulley are out of alignment by about 1/2". Basically the PS Pump Pulley needs to move forward about 1/2" and all should be OK. It might have been a bit out of alignment before, but it wasn't noticeable. You can see that it's out of alignment now. The alternator/fan/crank alignment is fine however.

Is the PS Pulley on correctly? Do they make PS Pulley shims? Any other ideas? I'd hate to start replacing more parts so let me know if I've done something wrong. Especially since the PS Pump is working fine, doesn't leak, etc..

View attachment 344029 View attachment 344030

Not sure what the other guys are talking about but I moved my power steering pump forward 1/2 inch with spacers made from 3/8 black pipe cut to length. My engine has a four groove pulley and two I use for the alternator and water pump and a separate groove for power steering pump. Three groove are the same for the power steering pump but look closely as not all grooves are the same width and on some pulleys, their diameters are different. Stacked pulleys need to be used for the right accessories as some are spaced differently and some are meant to be used with double belts. Fine tune your spacing with flat washers to get a perfect pulley alignment.

 

[petieg383]

Not sure what the other guys are talking about but I moved my power steering pump forward 1/2 inch with spacers made from 3/8 black pipe cut to length. My engine has a four groove pulley and two I use for the alternator and water pump and a separate groove for power steering pump. Three groove are the same for the power steering pump but look closely as not all grooves are the same width and on some pulleys, their diameters are different. Stacked pulleys need to be used for the right accessories as some are spaced differently and some are meant to be used with double belts. Fine tune your spacing with flat washers to get a perfect pulley alignment.

Yes that's what I was thinking too. I was just staring at it and figured if I shimmed in between the bracket closest to the engine block and the pump body that would move the entire pump forward enough to line things up. For some bonehead reason I didn't realize I could do that when I posted earlier. Not enough coffee I guess.

A little backyard engineering will fix it.

Thanks a ton.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I would love to see how you spaced the P/S.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Not sure what the other guys are talking about but I moved my power steering pump forward 1/2 inch with spacers made from 3/8 black pipe cut to length. My engine has a four groove pulley and two I use for the alternator and water pump and a separate groove for power steering pump. Three groove are the same for the power steering pump but look closely as not all grooves are the same width and on some pulleys, their diameters are different. Stacked pulleys need to be used for the right accessories as some are spaced differently and some are meant to be used with double belts. Fine tune your spacing with flat washers to get a perfect pulley alignment.

Different ways to space stuff,,,,,,,,,

 

[miller]

Can't quite make it out, in your second photo...
So, I'll just ask. The front end of the p/s pulley should be flush with the end of the shaft, is it? Might check the SM on that, but almost looks like the pulley is set too deep. About the same set-up on my 440, p/s belt should go on front crank pulley groove.

 

[hangn0ut]

Look into a water pump pulley for two belts. A short belt from water pump pulley to power steering pump pulley only.

 

[hangn0ut]

You dont really want to space out the water pump pulley. Cause that register has to engage the fan properly. If it doesnt you could have big problems.

 

[Car Nut]

You dont really want to space out the water pump pulley. Cause that register has to engage the fan properly. If it doesnt you could have big problems.

I agree, the fan will hit the radiator.

 

[hangn0ut]

I understand the PS brackets/pump doesn't move, but there has to be a way to adjust the pulley itself or swap a spacer in there. I have to assume that I'm using the right balancer and lower pulley, especially since both are from 440Source. At least they should be "matched". Both are "factory replacements".

If I'm going to space the lower pulley, it needs to move back into the engine more, and I'm pretty sure that's not possible. Catch my drift?

Hold yer horses. A new dampner is made slightly undersized in the bore and should be honed slightly to get the correct press fit. Therefore moving the dampner and pulley back into the motor. Is the dampner close to the timing cover? Did the dampner come with instructions? Did you do this already? If so,never mind this!

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

It looks like the WP,crank & water pump all line up. Just the PS pump is off,,,,,,,,

 

[hangn0ut]

I agree. However what I wrote is true and if he has like 3/4" clearance to the timing cover.....

 

[petieg383]

I would love to see how you spaced the P/S.

View attachment 344210 View attachment 344211 View attachment 344212 View attachment 344213

HEMI-ITIS once its all together I will post pics for sure. Basically I'll be shimming in between the pump and the bracket. I'll have long enough bolts to make it work. I really only need a 1/2" to align things up.

For the record this minor issue is merely a small page on the the novel I'm writing on this car this past winter into present day. I've also done the following:

• Had trans rebuilt at Passon - The trans ran dry and got ruined. She's a beaut now
• New Clutch & PP - Trans fluid soaked the original clutch
• Flywheel machined
• Driveshaft rebuilt
• New timing chain because I HATED the gear drive whine. God that thing was annoying. I couldn't hear the engine at all over it.
• New Oil Pan Gasket because it leaked like crazy
• Painted the underside of the car
• New Fan Clutch, Flex-A-Lite Fan because it had a fixed fan and it got hot in traffic

I'll be moving onto the oil pan and then hopefully this weekend getting the trans back in. What a F#(&$)ing mess this has been. I'm DYING to drive this car with all these new parts and the trans being actually healthy.

 

[747mopar]

My opinion, if it lined up before and you only replaced the balancer and crank pulley then there's your problem. If you ordered the parts make, model and year specific then my bet is somewhere in its life your car got mitch matched accessories? I know getting matching pulleys on a Mopar can be a pain! That said, anything can be spaced, shimmed, moved etc but it sure would be easier to figure out which part threw it all off and just fix it.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Cool. The reason I said that about the PS pump,the way it's mounted I don't see how it can be moved forward or back.Looking at you pic,the waterpump and alternator line up,,,,,the only thing you changed was the dampner and crank pulley.Was there2 belts?? One for the WP & alt and one for the powersteering?

 

[petieg383]

My opinion, if it lined up before and you only replaced the balancer and crank pulley then there's your problem. If you ordered the parts make, model and year specific then my bet is somewhere in its life your car got mitch matched accessories? I know getting matching pulleys on a Mopar can be a pain! That said, anything can be spaced, shimmed, moved etc but it sure would be easier to figure out which part threw it all off and just fix it.

Well that's the thing. It really wasn't lined up, and the crank pulley was out of whack You could see it spin and be wobbly, hence my replacing that part. The PS Pump was close but not wobbly. It might have been a little off before, I never did really look at it that closely. But you can clearly see it's not lined up now.

You're probably right, there probably are mismatched parts on it before I started all this, and the PS Pump is likely the culprit. Once I fix it I'll update everyone.

 

[petieg383]

Cool. The reason I said that about the PS pump,the way it's mounted I don't see how it can be moved forward or back.Looking at you pic,the waterpump and alternator line up,,,,,the only thing you changed was the dampner and crank pulley.Was there2 belts?? One for the WP & alt and one for the powersteering?

Once I get it done I'll show you. I'm confident in what I'm going to do.

There was 2 belts before, but it was a 3 belt crank pulley, and man it's HAMMERED. I might use it as a base for a trophy I'll weld up with the broken trans parts I have from the rebuild. Hehe. Like I said earlier, it likely wasn't lined up well before, just bolted together by the previous owner. I just got in and drove the car without replacing anything. Now I'm fixing all the bad parts from before.