A problem

[steve from staten island]

What do you do with a close friend who has a serious issue? He has no immediate close family and although knows many people has only me and one other close friend. Never married, took care of his ailing mother until her final day. Smart successful person but now is feeling the affects of being morbidly obese for all his life.
So today i brought him some home made chicken soup i made yesterday as he had some minor surgery
The house is beyond dirty. Its unsafe absolutely filthy. The entire bath tub was black. There was one chair to sit on in the entire place and no table to eat off. There are stacks of mail and papers, garbage everywhere. Its as bad as anything seen on TV. This was the kitchen and what was the living room and downstairs bath. The bedroom i was afraid to look. The upstairs, he has not been up there in years and the stairs are blocked off with all kinds of junk.
I explained to him that if social services knew what was going on they would report it and get involved. Its dangerous, unhealthy and a fire trap. The kitchen stove is beyond cleaning.
I want to help, now he is making excuses, but says he knows there is a problem.
He is physically unable to clean it himself but is open to the idea of a cleaning person or a team. The problem is the papers and clutter. At one point i picked up a random pile of mail and said look at this. It was all junk mail from God knows how long ago. He told me he is afraid to throw anything out.
Im taking care of my wife and now helping with my mother in law. I want to at least clean the tub. When i tell you i need to wear a respirator and gloves and a T-vec suit I'm not joking. Its almost like you want to demo it.
I am trying to get in touch with his other friend to see what he thinks but i have to at least make a effort to help this guy
Any advise or experience is appreciated

 

[Bill Monk]

It doesn't matter what YOU WANT to do to help him if you don't have his buy in on a change so first things first, you're going to have to pin him down on if he wants to change. You said he was successful so I assume he has finances to pay people to get it straightened up so if he does want it cleaned up, he or somebody will have to go through the junk and paper to get it to a point where you could maybe contact a temp agency or cleaning service to get it livable (they won't go through all that) then maybe hire a maid service to do a weekly cleaning. Having said all that, it's a complete waste of time and money if he doesn't commit to the clean up and maintaining it once it's clean. Intervention only works if the person wants or asks for help. Good luck man!

 

[rlem1977]

What do you do with a close friend who has a serious issue? He has no immediate close family and although knows many people has only me and one other close friend. Never married, took care of his ailing mother until her final day. Smart successful person but now is feeling the affects of being morbidly obese for all his life.

I am trying to get in touch with his other friend to see what he thinks but i have to at least make a effort to help this guy
Any advise or experience is appreciated

You have a good heart. The world needs more people like you who care about others. I do not have experience dealing with people that have a problem like your friend does. I believe he has a mental disorder of some kind, depression. Sometimes asking for or accepting help is viewed as failure, and pride or embarrassment may interfere with them getting help.

I have friends who have had issues like physical abuse, they realize they are being abused, but they believe they can "fix" the person doing the abuse. Frequent "trying to help" tends to push them away from those trying to help. You don't want to end up having him close down and not speak with you.

I guess I would kept checking on him, ask if there is anything you can do, and pray for him. We as a community can pray for both of you.

 

[Budnicks]

Tough Love
He needs psychiatric help
& someone to help clean up the hoard of stuff

If you really want to help
don't be an enabler, get a professional

there's help lines for that stuff in NY area I'm sure

 

[Big Bad Dad]

Hoarding is a mental health issue. Very difficult to solve the problem...

 

[5.7 hemi]

Not really, get a huge dumpster and start filling it. The hardest part of any job is just getting started, after that, it’s all down hill.

You want to break the habit of a hoarder, get rid of EVERYTHING. And have them help throw stuff away. It’ll be hard on them, but that’s what tuff love is about.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Local hoarder dies in house collapse. She once got on a bus and she smelled bus driver got out and vomited in the road. Police had done wellness checks but couldn't much else.https://www.nhregister.com/connecti...nd-dead-after-floor-of-cluttered-11380976.php

 

[ws23jrt]

I was a part of an "intervention" with my older sister a few years ago.--- She was in a similar situation.
It took a professional leader trained in this sort of thing as well as three other siblings and some of their family members to plan and get through that day.
A 'Pod" was ordered along with a large dumpster. I adopted her animals and with one of my other sisters gathered funds to pay for treatment and housing/rehab to the tune of over 5k.

I understand your question and your passion to help. Reality--and my advice is you need much help to help your friend. At this point you only have your intent and your conversation with him.

BTW my sister did well for a couple of years living simple and clean in a housing facility apartment designed/intended for cases like this.
She passed away in her sleep and me along with our sibling crew from the "intervention" had to endure another cleanup on a smaller scale due to the size of the apartment.

It is a sad and tough ordeal for all involved.

 

[moparwacko]

Been there done that, with an elderly relative. She actually got an infection from unsanitary conditions and nearly died. After that. She was in rehab (nursing home) for 3 months. During this time, all the kids got together and discovered the horror she (and husband) were living in. I can relate Steve, there was literally tunnels to each room. They were living in 3 rooms, that's it, kitchen, bath, and one third of the living room. EVERY other room was floor to ceiling, no kidding - JUNK. It took 2 dumpsters to clear the living room, dining room, and 1 bedroom. The rest of the house they gave up on. For someone who has never witnessed this first hand, it is beyond belief, and definitely a mental illness.
After her recovery she was absolutely livid that her stuff was gone. So the new hoard has been underway for a year, she sees nothing wrong......
As far as the husband, as long as there is beer, nothing else matters.

 

[JB400]

Know the story all to well, as I've helped clean up similar situations. Unfortunately, you can't help someone if they aren't willing to help themselves

 

[ws23jrt]

^^^Thanks for sharing that.--moparwacko
This topic can go much farther than just helping Steve and his friend.

Situations like these don't happen overnight. Good friends and family members should not shy away from being more aggressive early on for the good of all involved. Tough love can turn out to be the best kind of kindness.

 

[747mopar]

Had an uncle that was the same (not that bad though), literally a narrow path throughout the whole home and no usable counter space! Very sad when people do this to themselves but that's the key part (they did it to themselves) so unless they are wholeheartedly willing to work on the problem your beating a dead horse.

 

[MOPARENT]

Don't take on any more 'projects'.....life is short enough, enjoy your own...

 

[steve from staten island]

His mom got married and had him and then a sister a little later in life. Her husband died when the kids were very young. They had a tough time. His sister died of a heart defect when she was around 11. At that time his mother went into a depression and stayed that way for the rest of her life. My friend took care of her until the day she died
About 30 or so years ago my friend decided to do major renovation on the house as it was in very bad shape. They had one big hot air vent to heat up a two floor house. The house was at that time well over a hundred years old. I installed a two zone hot water heating system. The hot water heater was in the kitchen and i installed a new one in the basement, which was really just a dirt cellar. I did all the rough plumbing for a new bathroom on the first floor for mom and a new kitchen
They had a old steel sink base cabinets and sink. It was junk. His mom was having fits that we were throwing it out, i told my friend take her in another room for a little while. I ripped it off the wall and threw it out the back door. I then installed a slop sink in the mean time. She was pissed and wouldn't talk to me but when she got her new kitchen with the casement windows looking at the garden she was very happy.
That kitchen is the same today. The stove is rusted junk, the floor is worn out and the countertop is filthy.
My friend is a devout Catholic very involved with the church, he runs all the blood drives and has received awards from the American Red Cross. He is a great and loyal friend but he has this problem.
He wants one of those recliners which lifts you up so you can get out easy. Im trying to tell him lets clean up the junk, then get a cleaning person or two, maybe three and buy a new lazy boy recliner and a big screen TV.
He needs more surgery and next year needs both knees done. I told him point blank that if paramedics ever came into his house they would report him. He would then need legal representation to support the fact he is of sound mind. He still would have to clean up the place. I know this as true because thats exactly what happened to my fathers cousin who has a few loose screws.
I cant force him to do anything but i can try and i will, thanks and any advise is appreciated

 

[ws23jrt]

Hey Steve--how far are you willing to go for your friend.--All in?
If you do --his situation may just take you out early along with him. He may never understand or even care about your loss in trying to help him.

As they say on the airlines -when the oxygen masks drop out in front of you. ---Put yours on first and grab a breath before helping others.
Empathy and emotional intent are noble and compassionate. But are of no help if they interfere with practical thinking.

 

[bearman]

sometimes the best help is from others who understand the mind set. sometimes it can also become a thing that you keep trying to rescue. for the most part if they won't help themselves then how are you to help. its a sad story and alot of people have tried and failed. most of the time the condiction that they are in the think it is their confront zone and don't want it messed with. other times they don't even know they are living like that until its to late which is sad. pray about what you should or shouldn't do. the clear choice will be there for you. good luck

 

[steve from staten island]

Hey Steve--how far are you willing to go for your friend.--All in?
If you do --his situation may just take you out early along with him. He may never understand or even care about your loss in trying to help him.

As they say on the airlines -when the oxygen masks drop out in front of you. ---Put yours on first and grab a breath before helping others.
Empathy and emotional intent are noble and compassionate. But are of no help if they interfere with practical thinking.

Well my wife forbid me to clean the tub. My neighbor said i need full face protection and a haz mat suite. He will at some point hurt himself and then social services will get involved which may be the best thing. It hurts me to see someone like this but he's lived this way for a very long time. Im trying to just convince him to go through the stacks of papers. I told him id buy 6 of those cardboard boxes they sell in Staples for legal papers. He could keep what he deems to be important and throw out the rest. Thus way he could bring in a cleaning service. Talking to thus guy, seeing him you'd never know

 

[ws23jrt]

Well my wife forbid me to clean the tub. My neighbor said i need full face protection and a haz mat suite. He will at some point hurt himself and then social services will get involved which may be the best thing. It hurts me to see someone like this but he's lived this way for a very long time. Im trying to just convince him to go through the stacks of papers. I told him id buy 6 of those cardboard boxes they sell in Staples for legal papers. He could keep what he deems to be important and throw out the rest. Thus way he could bring in a cleaning service. Talking to thus guy, seeing him you'd never know

Steve--I have had many conversations with my sister about just this sort of thing.
She would ask me how to clean up the mess. I would say to make sure the garbage can was completely full for every pickup day. She said that made sense. ---It never happened.
About boxes of "legal papers"?----Everything of important value (if any exist) would fit in an envelope. -Think about it--What of value could he have that would be an actual loss if it was not found?

BTW This is the kind of thinking I have been going through with myself. --I am not - that kind of hoarder but I do have a lot of "stuff".
When I step back and look at my "stuff" I think about my kids and grandkids. I chose to spare them the task of dealing with it because when it comes down to it 95% of it has no value. --Monetary or otherwise.--

I feel blessed for the days that I can fill my pickup with "stuff" and either recycle or give it to goodwill.
Once I had a truck full that was waiting a few days for a trip to the landfill.---I actually found myself digging in that load twice when my tossing mood was weak.

 

[JB400]

If he's a devoted Catholic as you say, contact his priest. Get him involved. Maybe, he can convince your friend that he has a problem, and things need to be taken care of. If your friend will make a confession to the priest that he has a problem, maybe it'll be enough to get him to ask for help and get his life turned around

 

[steve from staten island]

If he's a devoted Catholic as you say, contact his priest. Get him involved. Maybe, he can convince your friend that he has a problem, and things need to be taken care of. If your friend will make a confession to the priest that he has a problem, maybe it'll be enough to get him to ask for help and get his life turned around

Not a bad idea but i have to go easy with that. I just need and try to get him to clean the place and live a more comfortable life. To be honest he needs to move as he lives in a **** neighborhood but even though he talks of going to Florida he is not going anywhere.