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727 question for the gurus

bcOH67

bcOH67

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Hello, have a fairly odd situation I’m hoping maybe somebody has seen before. I know it’s hard to say for sure from words on the Internet.

Just had my 727 for my 67 charger rebuilt. In the process learned it’s a 1969 dated transmission.

also, probably important to know, I installed a BM quicksilver shifter about two years ago and haven’t had any issues with it.

When the shop tore it apart, welearned that somebody had put a manual valve body in it. So the shop rebuild it as they found it.

Got everything put together but now when I drive it it won’t shift smoothly from First to second, I have to push the stick two times. Then going from 2nd to 3rd I have to pop it up into neutral and drop it back down to get it into third. All the other gears work fine.

The shop is nice and said they’ll make it right, but I’m not sure what’s going on. Was hoping maybe somebody would have an idea given how it’s shifting.

Logic seems to indicate the transmission was put back together incorrectly, but just wondering if something potentially waswrong all along that enabled the shifter to work correctly anyways.
 
If it doesnt get resolved very quickly....probably a good idea to change the valvebody before the trans gets damaged to the point that it has to come out and be re rebuilt.
 
Also important to note- I don’t know much of anything about transmissions or the inside of them.

I didn’t use the cable. I made some metal brackets and used it with the factory linkage. Like I said, it’s worked perfectly for two years. Now I have the transmission rebuilt and it’s not working the same.

Another bit of info- if I just put it in D (3) it shifts super smooth between gears, but it does it really fast. Like I’m in 3rd by 15 mph fast.
 
DanielSlocum said:
If it doesnt get resolved very quickly....probably a good idea to change the valvebody before the trans gets damaged to the point that it has to come out and be re rebuilt.
Click to expand...

So I could just put a ‘factory’ 727 3spd auto valve body in it and it will be fine/ just like a normal 727?
 
My understanding is that a manual shift valve body only goes in the gear that is selected. I have a reverse manual valve body in my Hemi Dart and that is the way it works. Your transmission shouldn't shift unless you manually move the gear selector.
 
Ok I’ll have to check with them. But yes, before I could either put it in D and it would shift like an auto or I could go through the gears on my own

Now I can leave it in D and it shifts through the gears on it’s only really fast. Or I shift thin rough then manually and have the above mentioned issues
 
Who took it out and put it back in? You or the shop? That's who's fault it is.
The shifter adjustment is wrong.

If it goes through the gears in D then it's not a manual valve body.

If it gets to 3rd gear by 15mph then it needs more throttle pressure, adjust the linkage.
 
The shop did. Is the shifter adjustment done externally or inside the transmission?
 
Man valve bodies come as a complete VB....or...you can buy a kit to convert the factory VB to fully manual operation. Trying to reverse engineer it without knowing the type of VB is...... a fool's errand.
I would get a new valve body.
 
Indeed, a manual valve body does not shift automatically anymore at all.
Sounds like your throttle pressure ratio is way off since the rebuild, normally no parts are replaced on the valve body and the rebuild focusses on the bands, clutches and seal of the transmission itself.
The valve body would be dismantled and cleaned and no parts replaced unless something if found worn out or broken.

Since you are using a throttle linkage, although with home made parts, and worked well before the rebuild you have to make sure it was connected back the same way on the transmission.
The original linkage arm on the trans is slotted and can only go on in 1 way, make sure that it is installed correctly first.
Then check the adjustment on the linkage, with the carb at WOT position the throttle pressure linkage should be nearly bottomed out as well. (this is just a base line to see if the linkage is near its correct position)
At the same time check and make sure the carb throttle blades are really fully opened at the WOT position.
Also check that the selector linkage for the transmission is adjusted properly, there is an adjuster screw on the linkage near the transmission that allows you to adjust it. (Is it a column shifter on center console type?)
 
Thanks guys! It’s a console shift. I guess the main problem I’m going to have is I have no idea how it was connected before underneath/at the transmission. I only worked from inside the car. And I’m assuming they didn’t take pictures or anything. So I guess I’m going to be at the mercy of the shop to get it right and hope they know what they’re doing haha
 
If your transmission shifted through the gears automatically, before the rebuild, the valve body is definitely not a manual shift one. This also means that the kickdown/governor system is still intact. Most manual shift VB installations do away with this. However your VB could have had a shift kit installed, with unknown modifications.
If it were mine, I would start over again with a stock, unmodified VB. I would try to find a 1971- newer non-lockup VB, with the part-throttle kickdown feature. I have this in my 1967 R/T, and like it.
 
Dave6T4 said:
I would try to find a 1971- newer non-lockup VB, with the part-throttle kickdown feature. I have this in my 1967 R/T, and like it.
Click to expand...
I got the same from A&A transmission and works perfect indeed.

But for the OP, if he is going to have a shop fix it the issue it is in hands of the shop.
If they had the valve body apart the could have set/adjusted the pressure regulator to stock adjustment and in case a shift kit has been installed the PR will definitly be adjusted higher than stock and will throw things out of balance.
I surely hope they know what they are doing because if things are out of wack pressure wise you could be burning your clutches in the long run. Or very short if is way out.
I would at least discuss this with them to make sure they understand you will be coming back for warranty if the clutches burned due to bad adjustment.
 
Yeah it definitely shifted as an automatic. I mean I never even knew anything was done to it to make it not stock until all this. The guy at the shop said it’s a manual valve body because all the bearings were taken out. Again, I don’t necessarily know what any of it means, but that’s what he said. He also said it shouldn’t shift itself but it definitely did.

If swapping whatever vb is in it with a normal 727 vb that might just be what I do.
 
bcOH67 said:
If swapping whatever vb is in it with a normal 727 vb that might just be what I do.
Click to expand...
Installing a "new" valve body does not mean your problems are solved.
If the selector and throttle linkage are not setup properly, the new VB will not work well either.
Since it did work normal before and you had been driving it for several years, your current valve body should still work.
Unless the shop did something to it that changes things.
First try to get the linkages setup properly, big chance it will work again as before.
Buying another valve body is going to be $400 minimum.
 
bcOH67 said:
Yeah it definitely shifted as an automatic. I mean I never even knew anything was done to it to make it not stock until all this. The guy at the shop said it’s a manual valve body because all the bearings were taken out. Again, I don’t necessarily know what any of it means, but that’s what he said. He also said it shouldn’t shift itself but it definitely did.

If swapping whatever vb is in it with a normal 727 vb that might just be what I do.
Click to expand...
I think you need to find another transmission shop. It sounds like they either don't know what they are doing or can't explain it well enough to you.
 
bcOH67 said:
Yeah it definitely shifted as an automatic. I mean I never even knew anything was done to it to make it not stock until all this. The guy at the shop said it’s a manual valve body because all the bearings were taken out. Again, I don’t necessarily know what any of it means, but that’s what he said. He also said it shouldn’t shift itself but it definitely did.

If swapping whatever vb is in it with a normal 727 vb that might just be what I do.
Click to expand...
If all the balls were out of the VB, it should not work at all, let alone upshift by itself.
 
Asuming they put the valve body back together the same way it came apart. And it shifted fine before it was removed. My first though is shifter adjustment. All Quick Silvers are not the same. I have a very old one in my street car. The intial adjustment has to be made in 3rd (forward patern valve body). The reason is that the throw to P on that shifter has a double detent. On the very early Quick Silver you can either lift the handle in 1st and select park by pushing it all the way forward. Or ratcheting it all the way into park. If the ratchet method is used there are 2 clicks between park and reverse. Try that before condeming the valve body.
Doug
 
dvw said:
Asuming they put the valve body back together the same way it came apart. And it shifted fine before it was removed. My first though is shifter adjustment. All Quick Silvers are not the same. I have a very old one in my street car. The intial adjustment has to be made in 3rd (forward patern valve body). The reason is that the throw to P on that shifter has a double detent. On the very early Quick Silver you can either lift the handle in 1st and select park by pushing it all the way forward. Or ratcheting it all the way into park. If the ratchet method is used there are 2 clicks between park and reverse. Try that before condeming the valve body.
Doug
Click to expand...
What if they had set the pressure regulator to stock adjustment while it was adjusted higher previously due to a installed shift kit, this would throw things out of balance in respect to throttle pressure and governor pressure, resulting in very early shifts, right? That is what i was thinking initially when he mentioned early shifts.

Setting up the selector in the middle of the throw is not a bad idea actually, when doing this in Park with minor misalignment it will be misaligned more towards 2 & 1. Going from center (Drive) you could have only minor misalignment in both directions and being more foregiving.
 
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