• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

440 NO Budget build!

polkat

Well-Known Member
Local time
7:21 AM
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
99
Reaction score
4
Location
Chico, CA
Okay, time to admit it...I'm ready to assemble this 1971 440. Has stock forged crank, stock pistons (maybe .060" in the hole), and 346 heads. I'm unemployed and poor (and-heh-getting poorer), so while I'd love to do a good quench build, looks like I'm stuck using the parts I have (which are all in pretty good shape). I am forced to buy a cam (it was missing), and with a little luck or trading, a different intake (I have the cast 4bbl manifold) and maybe some headers. Can't afford anything else except maybe some mill work.

The engine will be mainly a street engine, 95% and 5% strip.

So, what can I do with this thing? My main concern is the compression, which is probably in the 8.5:1 or less range. I figure a little head milling might help, but how much? What else can I do? Any ideas? Thanks!
 
Speak with a cam manufacturer on a compresion building cam to help retain more cylinder pressure. Tell them what your gear ratio is and other car facts so they can get an idea on where there going.

Mic the depth of the pistons, cc the heads and write down the gasket dimentions so you can do the math (On line cals are available) to find out the exact compresion ratio.
 
Okay, time to admit it...I'm ready to assemble this 1971 440. Has stock forged crank, stock pistons (maybe .060" in the hole), and 346 heads. I'm unemployed and poor (and-heh-getting poorer), so while I'd love to do a good quench build, looks like I'm stuck using the parts I have (which are all in pretty good shape). I am forced to buy a cam (it was missing), and with a little luck or trading, a different intake (I have the cast 4bbl manifold) and maybe some headers. Can't afford anything else except maybe some mill work.

The engine will be mainly a street engine, 95% and 5% strip.

So, what can I do with this thing? My main concern is the compression, which is probably in the 8.5:1 or less range. I figure a little head milling might help, but how much? What else can I do? Any ideas? Thanks!


These are my favorite builds as I personally enjoy maximizing whatever one has to work with.

Anyone can throw money at an engine and get good performance (or sub-par performance in many cases), but I think you will be shocked at how much performance can be had from just a well thought out, and carefully assembled engine that would normally be considered a low performance smog "slug".

More info is needed such as what car it's going into, options such as power brakes - A/C - etc; auto or manual (if auto what converter), gears (and posi or not), car usage (daily driver or weekend cruiser), headers or manifolds (if headers, what size), what machine work you plan on having done (valve job - cylinder honing - balancing, etc); what new parts you plan on using if any (rings - bearings - rod bolts - timing set, etc); carb, distributor. And anything else you can think of.

Also, being a 71 engine, does it have the 6 pack rods in it?

Being a low compression engine, the cam is going to be ultra important as you need to build as much cylinder pressure as possible.

This means that you are going to have to design for torque as higher RPM performance will not really be feasible with low compression.

On the plus side, the 440 design is unique in that even with low compression, you can build ultra high torque. Much more than other makes with similar displacement/compression engines.

Post back with details on your build (and what your max budget is) and I'm sure I, and others can help you.
 
Well, it's a 1971 440 4bbl non-HP engine that I bought apart cheap. Has the forged crank and the journals all check out good. Pistons (stock) are also good. All clearances check out fine. I've replaced the main (fully grooved) and rod bearings and deglazed (honed) the cylinders and cleaned the block up nicely. Changed the cam bearings (two were cracked). Has the iron 4bbl manifold and an AFB of unknown size. I've opened up the galley to main oil passages, and installed MP rod bolts/nuts (I have a thing about oil to the rods). The old cam/lifters were missing so I'll need to replace them. Also came with no exhaust manifolds. The heads are 356's and I have not done anything with them yet.

It's going into a 1964 4-door Fury. I will mate it to a later year big block 727 that is built with extra clutchs, 4 pinion sets, and a Transgo shift kit. The rear is presently the original splined shaft 8-3/4". Not yet sure of the gear ratio, but it is not posi.

I'm presently unemployed so I have to keep expenses to a minimum. Thanks!
 
Yup, find out how far down the piston is. I have a 70 model 440 with the jugs .050 down, closed chambered 516 heads using the factory style steel shim gaskets (.020) and the compression is 10.3-1. Your heads will be right around 90cc while the stock closed chambered heads are right around 80cc. Don't go by the books because they were written based on what the NHRA allowed as a minimum back in the day as factory stock. Also, if you mill them, .0042 = approx 1cc. So, if you want to reduce them to 80cc, you'll need to take off approx .042" This is only approximate now....not gospel....
 
Well, I'm looking for right around 9:1~9.5:1. My measureing stuff is kinda beat, but I'm seeing the pistons (stock) about .060" down the hole (maybe a tad less). If my heads are actually around 90cc as you mentioned (I will try to measure them), and I'm looking for say 9.5:1, then it seems a .040" head shave with shim gaskets should work.....? I can figure the manifold side cut, but will I have to do anything about pushrod length (I'm using the stock valvetrain)?

By the way, what are shops getting these days for head milling?

Thanks!
 
As for machining the intake side of the heads for fit, do a mock up. I've had intakes actually fit better after milling the deck surface. Factory tolerance was all over the board so doing the mock up first is your best bet. Same way with the pushrods. Stock type lifters are usually preloaded to around .050 (I like a bit less) but you should probably ask whoever you buy them from what they recommend but there are shims made that go under the rocker shafts if preload is too much. And I have no idea what a shop charges since I have my own machinery and do that myself.
 
"Well, it's a 1971 440 4bbl non-HP engine that I bought apart cheap. Has the forged crank and the journals all check out good. Pistons (stock) are also good. All clearances check out fine. I've replaced the main (fully grooved) and rod bearings and deglazed (honed) the cylinders and cleaned the block up nicely. Changed the cam bearings (two were cracked). Has the iron 4bbl manifold and an AFB of unknown size. I've opened up the galley to main oil passages, and installed MP rod bolts/nuts (I have a thing about oil to the rods). The old cam/lifters were missing so I'll need to replace them. Also came with no exhaust manifolds. The heads are 356's and I have not done anything with them yet."

----------------------

Your off to a bad start already. You will now have to compensate for the oiling system damage (I can't call it a modification because the word "modification" insinuates an improvement). Installing full grooved mains doubles the oil to the rods. How much more do you want for a street engine? Remember --- There is no free lunch. For every action (or modification) there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Hopefully a high pressure spring in a new stock pump, and running a heavier oil than would otherwise be necessary, will compensate for the new oiling inadequacy, but to be safe, you should probably buy a high volume pump and buy/install a high pressure spring.

Unfortunately this will cost you at least 10+ HP plus the cost of parts, in order to maintain reliability, while compensating for the change.

I don't intend to be mean, as it's not really your fault. The Internet and magazines are sometimes rife with bad information that is presented as "better", or suggesting modifications for street engines that only apply to ultra high RPM race engines.

----------------------

"It's going into a 1964 4-door Fury. I will mate it to a later year big block 727 that is built with extra clutchs, 4 pinion sets, and a Transgo shift kit. The rear is presently the original splined shaft 8-3/4". Not yet sure of the gear ratio, but it is not posi.

I'm presently unemployed so I have to keep expenses to a minimum. Thanks!"
----------------------

Again, all these things are totally unnecessary for a non-, full race, street engine, and more importantly, cost power (and money). There goes another 10+ HP or so.

----------------------

"Well, I'm looking for right around 9:1~9.5:1."
----------------------

Planning a build around some arbitrary compression ratio is wrong and amateur. Cylinder pressure is the only important factor, and before you can determine what parts or compression ratio you need, you HAVE to define to yourself exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

In your case it fairly easy as you are working with the components you have available. You have a heavy car (I'm guessing 4200-4300 lbs.), I'm guessing a stock converter and 3.23 gears, you live in California (91 octane). I've been through Chico a couple of times (Gorgeous area by the way), and I believe you have cooler temperatures with mid humidity percentages (allows for higher cylinder pressure, unless your goal is to be able to drive through any area/climate).

Since money is tight, I'm assuming that fuel millage is important to you, as well as dependability. And I'm guessing that your future plans don't include substantial modifications to turn it into a "strip" car.

You are using stock Pistons/heads/valves, with stock valvetrain, so 6000+ RPM is not going to be necessary (or even possible without substantial investment and port work), So that leaves you with the options of designing for low speed/RPM torque, or maximum mid range (or some compromise in between). If I'm wrong on any of this please correct me.

The first thing you need to determine is what you are working with, which means you will have to determine your stock compression ratio.

----------------------

"My measuring stuff is kinda beat, but I'm seeing the pistons (stock) about .060" down the hole (maybe a tad less)."
----------------------

Sorry but that answer/excuse doesn't hold water! Anyone can use even a feeler gage and straight edge and determine the compression height, and for decades I used a broken piece of window glass and a drug store syringe to measure head CC's. If you don't know how to do it, ask, but anything other than a precision answer is just lazy.

You need to know the head CC's and piston compression height in order to figure out what your potential compression ratio is, so that you can determine what cam you can use to achieve your goals. Cam selection for your intended vehicle use is the absolute most important choice. You then set your compression ratio through head gasket choice, or milling in order to achieve your target cylinder pressure.

If quench can be achieved while meeting your compression requirements, that's just a lucky bonus, but highly doubtful (remember, you are working with what you have, not custom parts). Quench is highly overrated as it only allows a slightly higher cylinder pressure, and then only if the head chambers are smoothed out, with all edges smoothly radius ed. Even then the benefits are marginal, with plenty of downsides. Why do you think that all the manufacturers went away from it on the big bore engines nearly 50 years ago? Only the recent OEM use of small bores, and aluminum heads has re-introduced it, and only then because of emissions standards. --- The new Hemi engine failed emission tests (and was almost abandoned) without the quench areas, but on non-emission max HP race engines, the quench areas are usually cut away!

Sorry but I will continue this either tonight, or tomorrow, as time permits. At least it gives you something to chew on. Post back if you can further define your goals, as that will help in specific recommendations.
 
"Well, it's a 1971 440 4bbl non-HP engine that I bought apart cheap. Has the forged crank and the journals all check out good. Pistons (stock) are also good. All clearances check out fine. I've replaced the main (fully grooved) and rod bearings and deglazed (honed) the cylinders and cleaned the block up nicely. Changed the cam bearings (two were cracked). Has the iron 4bbl manifold and an AFB of unknown size. I've opened up the galley to main oil passages, and installed MP rod bolts/nuts (I have a thing about oil to the rods). The old cam/lifters were missing so I'll need to replace them. Also came with no exhaust manifolds. The heads are 356's and I have not done anything with them yet."

----------------------

Your off to a bad start already. You will now have to compensate for the oiling system damage (I can't call it a modification because the word "modification" insinuates an improvement). Installing full grooved mains doubles the oil to the rods. How much more do you want for a street engine? Remember --- There is no free lunch. For every action (or modification) there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Hopefully a high pressure spring in a new stock pump, and running a heavier oil than would otherwise be necessary, will compensate for the new oiling inadequacy, but to be safe, you should probably buy a high volume pump and buy/install a high pressure spring.

Unfortunately this will cost you at least 10+ HP plus the cost of parts, in order to maintain reliability, while compensating for the change.

I don't intend to be mean, as it's not really your fault. The Internet and magazines are sometimes rife with bad information that is presented as "better", or suggesting modifications for street engines that only apply to ultra high RPM race engines.

----------------------

"It's going into a 1964 4-door Fury. I will mate it to a later year big block 727 that is built with extra clutchs, 4 pinion sets, and a Transgo shift kit. The rear is presently the original splined shaft 8-3/4". Not yet sure of the gear ratio, but it is not posi.

I'm presently unemployed so I have to keep expenses to a minimum. Thanks!"
----------------------

Again, all these things are totally unnecessary for a non-, full race, street engine, and more importantly, cost power (and money). There goes another 10+ HP or so.

----------------------

"Well, I'm looking for right around 9:1~9.5:1."
----------------------

Planning a build around some arbitrary compression ratio is wrong and amateur. Cylinder pressure is the only important factor, and before you can determine what parts or compression ratio you need, you HAVE to define to yourself exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

In your case it fairly easy as you are working with the components you have available. You have a heavy car (I'm guessing 4200-4300 lbs.), I'm guessing a stock converter and 3.23 gears, you live in California (91 octane). I've been through Chico a couple of times (Gorgeous area by the way), and I believe you have cooler temperatures with mid humidity percentages (allows for higher cylinder pressure, unless your goal is to be able to drive through any area/climate).

Since money is tight, I'm assuming that fuel millage is important to you, as well as dependability. And I'm guessing that your future plans don't include substantial modifications to turn it into a "strip" car.

You are using stock Pistons/heads/valves, with stock valvetrain, so 6000+ RPM is not going to be necessary (or even possible without substantial investment and port work), So that leaves you with the options of designing for low speed/RPM torque, or maximum mid range (or some compromise in between). If I'm wrong on any of this please correct me.

The first thing you need to determine is what you are working with, which means you will have to determine your stock compression ratio.

----------------------

"My measuring stuff is kinda beat, but I'm seeing the pistons (stock) about .060" down the hole (maybe a tad less)."
----------------------

Sorry but that answer/excuse doesn't hold water! Anyone can use even a feeler gage and straight edge and determine the compression height, and for decades I used a broken piece of window glass and a drug store syringe to measure head CC's. If you don't know how to do it, ask, but anything other than a precision answer is just lazy.

You need to know the head CC's and piston compression height in order to figure out what your potential compression ratio is, so that you can determine what cam you can use to achieve your goals. Cam selection for your intended vehicle use is the absolute most important choice. You then set your compression ratio through head gasket choice, or milling in order to achieve your target cylinder pressure.

If quench can be achieved while meeting your compression requirements, that's just a lucky bonus, but highly doubtful (remember, you are working with what you have, not custom parts). Quench is highly overrated as it only allows a slightly higher cylinder pressure, and then only if the head chambers are smoothed out, with all edges smoothly radius ed. Even then the benefits are marginal, with plenty of downsides. Why do you think that all the manufacturers went away from it on the big bore engines nearly 50 years ago? Only the recent OEM use of small bores, and aluminum heads has re-introduced it, and only then because of emissions standards. --- The new Hemi engine failed emission tests (and was almost abandoned) without the quench areas, but on non-emission max HP race engines, the quench areas are usually cut away!

Sorry but I will continue this either tonight, or tomorrow, as time permits. At least it gives you something to chew on. Post back if you can further define your goals, as that will help in specific recommendations.


You make some good points but I disagree with your view on quench. For max power and resistance to detonation it's important to ensure the AF mixture is homogeneous prior to ignition and quench is an easy way to accomplish that.
 
While the responses I get here are highly appreciated, I also disagree with a few other things q-ship has mentioned, but particularly quench.

q-ship said, “Quench is highly overrated as it only allows a slightly higher cylinder pressure, and then only if the head chambers are smoothed out, with all edges smoothly radius ed. Even then the benefits are marginal, with plenty of downsides.”

Well, I can't really see the downsides if done properly, but quench does considerably more then that (and only sharp edges need smoothing). It forces the mixture into a sort of mini tornado moved quickly toward the flame front, further mixing any suspended fuel droplets into mist, and cooling the combustion chamber and piston top, helping restrict detonation (which is it’s primary benefit). In fact, when properly built, a quench engine with 10 or 11 to 1 compression will detonate less then a non-quench engine with 9 to 1 or so compression on the same gas.

He said, “Why do you think that all the manufacturers went away from it on the big bore engines nearly 50 years ago?”

They didn’t! 50 years ago most manufacturers used closed chamber heads, but the pistons were far enough down in the holes that quench was never a consideration. The big manufacturers knew about it, but it would require so much more precision in manufacturing tolerances that it rarely came up, and when it did the bean counters always killed it.

Quench was first used in engine manufacturing by, of all people, Harley Davidson motorcycles back in the 1930's, who have used it all along. All manufacturers have been aware of it, and in the past few decades (particularly the last), but quench has become primarily a popular non-commercial way of fighting detonation, useful for both street and strip engines!

I’m no amature to engines, just too poor lately to afford to do it right. I highly appreciate the advice, but making statements like I have destroyed my oiling system with specific modifications...whoops, damage...well...

Drilling the galley passages simply allows for more flow to the mains, which I want. The same is true for the fully grooved bearings, although I am now again considering using ½ or 3/4 grooved bearings. I mentioned that the car will be raced on occausion, and the only real problems I’ve had in the past racing big block Mopars is oil starved rods. The (blueprinted) pump is using the black spring and I’m running a windage tray, and MP rod bolts/nuts. Also considering going to a ½" pickup. While I’m poor and can’t afford much in parts as stated, I get stuff sometimes through trades and help from others. While none of this may acheive any further protection for the bearings, it certainly won’t hurt anything either, won’t cost HP, and simply makes me feel better.

When you say, “For every action (or modification) there is an equal but opposite reaction” I’d fully agree, but the reaction can easily be positive as well as negative. I hardly see any of this as a “...new oiling inadequacy...” but rather an improvement. Simple hydraulic physics states that while there may be an increase in volume flow, pressure in single system remains constant just behind any opening or venturi (oil leaving the bearing sides), so while I might expect a small lowering of overall oil pressure, I don’t expect problems.

Still, you have given me things to think about, and that is appreciated!
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top