69 A12 Bee won't start

[8formulas]

Hi, before I get into what has been happening, let me ask a question first. So picture this: you turn the ign key to crank and the engine cranks and cranks. It won't start. You release the key back to the run position. THEN, you turn it back even more to the off position and all of a sudden, pffffff.....NOT a backfire but a puff of smoke comes back through all 3 carbs.

It's as if it lights the mixture when you physically turn the key to the off position. What the hell is that?

P.S. spark at the end of the coil wire seems healthy. spark at the plugs is weak. But let's focus on the above first. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[69a100]

Video would sure make for a excellent example of what's happening with it. Good Luck

 

[Bad B-rad]

Based on what you wrote,
I would Check ballast resistor, make sure it isn't broken, next ignition (key) switch.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Yup, or Dizzy….
Some electronic distributors have a failure over time preventing a strong spark.
Happened to me on 2 muscle cars
For instance, the "Spark" is there but short duration, think of it as "pulses"
MSD for instance and D.U.I systems put out a wide pulse that lasts millesconds more than conventional electronic distributors
As far as shutting it (key) off and a "spark" of combustion, that was my problem with a 68 Firebird 400....
New D.U.I and it was like a new car
Not saying this is your issue but my identical problems were cured...
Over time and dis-connecting, connecting battery and or dis-connecting a car battery as car is running can damage the Dizzy's components..
Good luck
PS: I first thought it was the Carb with my misfire etc.

 

[Durandal25]

Puff of smoke is fuel my friend....please be careful when cranking it. Ballast, coil....lots of irritating mopar gremlins. Lift off the hood if you get too much vapor.

 

[69a100]

Hi, before I get into what has been happening, let me ask a question first. So picture this: you turn the ign key to crank and the engine cranks and cranks. It won't start. You release the key back to the run position. THEN, you turn it back even more to the off position and all of a sudden, pffffff.....NOT a backfire but a puff of smoke comes back through all 3 carbs.

You don't say, so I'll ask as it helps other diagnosis the problem! Is this a problem that just started on a car you've had for awhile that ran fine, or is this a project car that you're working on and trying to get runnin again?
Good Luck

 

[8formulas]

This just started. This car ran awesome and one day (a few weeks ago) I felt a slight surging as I was cruising around 30 - 35 mph. It got worse in a very short time. I was 15 miles from home. By the luck of God, I hit every green light. I knew it wouldn't idle if I let off the gas. I made it home (thank God) and let my foot off the gas. It died. I was able to get it running again but it ran like crap. Now.....forget it. It won't start. It cranks but won't fire. There's fresh fuel and the spark is weak. Battery is fully charged.

Every electrical component including the engine wire harness has been replaced over the last 2.5 years. Well, not the ignition switch. But EVERYTHING else and nothing came from Autozone. Mancini was my primary source for parts. Yesterday, I swapped a new ballast AND a new ECU (yes I converted it a Mopar electronic Igntion system). Also, I pulled the connectors at the bulkhead, cleaned them, checked for pushed in spades and put diaelectric grease. Same, won't start.

 

[8formulas]

Super Bee Ski - I have a 74 Firebird Formula 400 and last year the car died a mile from my house. I scrapped all the MSD crap and put a single wire DUI in it. You're correct, it was like a new car. I wonder if the distributor in my Bee went bad. It's 2.5 years old.

 

[Bad B-rad]

A new ready to run dizzy, is nice, but the pick up and reluctor, are much cheaper to change, and can be tested before you throw parts at it.
I just trying to help you spend money wisely.

From what you said about how it happened, and how it acted,I am now leaning toward fuel distribution issue. with 3 carbs that can be a bitch, LOL.
But it is very hard for me to diagnose things over the net vs in person.

 

[69a100]

Every electrical component including the engine wire harness has been replaced over the last 2.5 years. Well, not the ignition switch.

You might have just mentioned the problem, how's the wiring under there, new, old? Could be a bad, loose wire? Good Luck

 

[8formulas]

Well, the wiring under the dash is original. Only the wiring in the engine compartment is all brand new.

 

[8formulas]

I tested voltage at the connector where the yellow wire plugs into the starter relay. It was only 9.6volts. Shouldn't it be 12volts?

 

[Bad B-rad]

Try pulling a plug see if its wet.
My thoughts are, carbs work via vacuum, cranking it creates vacuum so its dumping in to much fuel, not enough air, you stop cranking, no vacuum and it stops dumping fuel, and does a hiccup fire, and that could be your puff out the carbs.

Could also plug or disconnect the fuel supply line to carbs, and crank, if it was flooding it will fire as it runs the fuel bowels out of fuel.
when fuel bowels are empty, and you reinstall fuel line, it will again fire before the bowels fill up completely.

Just some ideas.
As you said it was running great until you felt the surge.
Good luck!!

 

[69L48Z27]

An A12 you say? Those are such a headache. You should probably ship me the car with a title and give up now
.

Sounds like timing but if nothing came apart then that would be hard to do unless there was a failure of something in the distributor. Make sure you have voltage to the coil while cranking. Sounds like you did that. Fuel, air, spark...

 

[super-bee_ski]

Super Bee Ski - I have a 74 Firebird Formula 400 and last year the car died a mile from my house. I scrapped all the MSD crap and put a single wire DUI in it. You're correct, it was like a new car. I wonder if the distributor in my Bee went bad. It's 2.5 years old.

I was totally surprised as I "chased" carb issues...
Find someone with a Good DIZZY and try that....(First)
YES...YES....YES on the "fire os combustion" as the key was (is) turned off...
Same ...
Good luck, keep us posted...

 

[super-bee_ski]

As 69L4827Z says:
I will beat his offer.....
Yup, if you wish...I will fly there and take it off your hands for say...$500 more than

 

[8formulas]

Believe me guys....the past few weeks this car has driven me crazy and I was seriously considering unloading it. But I know myself very well. I'll get it running again and I'll fall back in love with my 440 6pk 4 speed Dana all over again. LOL!!!! I will definitely update everyone. THANK YOU to all who have tried to help. Mike

 

[RJRENTON]

I was totally surprised as I "chased" carb issues...
Find someone with a Good DIZZY and try that....(First)
YES...YES....YES on the "fire os combustion" as the key was (is) turned off...
Same ...
Good luck, keep us posted...

Went to the auto parts store and asked the counter person for a "dizzy" for my car....the counter person looked at me like I had snakes coming out of my ears. After rummaging around in the back, he found a D.U.I., he thought might work....but having a "D.U.I." (#4 above) and driving might be hazardous to one's well being? ....confused?....me too.... it's difficult to diagnose what the problem may be...if you do not understand the language.
BOB RENTON

 

[cosgig]

Have you tried a little shot of ether to see if it fires? That may rule out or shine light on whether it is a fuel issue or not.

 

[Moparnocar]

What voltage to the coil? Does it vary on cranking?