Does anyone use David Wise's Master Restoration and Judging Reference Manual (questions/issues)?

[rklewis1005]

I bought it about a year ago and have been relying on it for finish info, part numbers, finding date codes, etc. It seems like a good reference overall; however, I ran into an issue and wondering what other people have found.

About a month ago, the shop doing my metal/body work called me and said that the leaf springs on the car were not the same (the 2 were reportedly different lengths). They were trying to check the final fit before welding the rear frame rails, so I sourced 2 used ones based on the manual (1970 383 4 BBL) as part number "109", and they lined up perfectly. The shop is done with them, so I picked up the rear axle and leaf springs (both pairs) yesterday and brought them home. I wanted to check part numbers on the ones that were on the car when I got it, so that I could sell them (I don't like mysteries). Well, low and behold, they're not different, they're the same part number (211).

So I started wondering where did those 211s come from and could they be original to that 1970 Charger SE? In the Restoration Manual, it has the 211s associated with 1968 B Bodies (pic attach) w/383 4 BBL Carb. So I emailed MMC Detroit and asked if I should be looking at the model year or the production date to match up the parts. I originally misread 1968 as 1969, so I was thinking I should use production date (69) vs Model Year (70) and wanted to confirm.

They answered and said for my 1970 Charger with 383 4BBL auto the correct part number is 211. That jives with what was on the car, but that means the manual is wrong, correct? So I emailed them back and asked again, if the chart goes by "production date" - they responded NO, use Model Year. That doesn't make sense, then I realize the 211s were actually 68 not 69 (so production date would be wrong anyway), so I emailed them and asked them "how do I read it" and "should I be emailing them for everything" or is there a more updated online database that I can use/subscribe to. They didn't like that, and I got a kurt response email "feel free to return the manual for a full refund". WOW!

I emailed back and told them I didn't mean to hurt their feelings, but am I wrong to expect it to be correct/close? They clearly have different information when I email, so what are other people using for the "definitive Mopar Bible"?

If you made it this far, since the 211s that were on the car seem to be correct (from their email), does anyone know of a shop in SC that re-arches Leaf Springs? I may try to do it myself as I see how-to videos with DIY jigs; however, the long-term success seems questionable.

Thanks
Ross

 

[gtx6970]

As with anything in print use it as a guide NOT an end all bible / guaranteed fool proof authority

 

[69Coronetrt]

So I started wondering where did those 211s come from and could they be original to that 1970 Charger SE?

They answered and said for my 1970 Charger with 383 4BBL auto the correct part number is 211.

If you made it this far, since the 211s that were on the car seem to be correct (from their email), does anyone know of a shop in SC that re-arches Leaf Springs? I may try to do it myself as I see how-to videos with DIY jigs; however, the long-term success seems questionable.

Both springs were used for 70 Chargers 383-4bbls.

A couple of things....

Some/many restoration guides are written by folks that, frankly, have done incorrect or incomplete research on what they publish and charge for. The do not take the time to research or write about nuances that conflict with sweeping statements.

Because so many guides or sources are wrong or incomplete, as Bill said, guides should be used as guidelines and not necessarily as definitive. You had to spend money to find this out.

You caught one of their incomplete explainations/examples.

 

[MWbirdLOVER70]

I bought it about a year ago and have been relying on it for finish info, part numbers, finding date codes, etc. It seems like a good reference overall; however, I ran into an issue and wondering what other people have found.

About a month ago, the shop doing my metal/body work called me and said that the leaf springs on the car were not the same (the 2 were reportedly different lengths). They were trying to check the final fit before welding the rear frame rails, so I sourced 2 used ones based on the manual (1970 383 4 BBL) as part number "109", and they lined up perfectly. The shop is done with them, so I picked up the rear axle and leaf springs (both pairs) yesterday and brought them home. I wanted to check part numbers on the ones that were on the car when I got it, so that I could sell them (I don't like mysteries). Well, low and behold, they're not different, they're the same part number (211).

So I started wondering where did those 211s come from and could they be original to that 1970 Charger SE? In the Restoration Manual, it has the 211s associated with 1968 B Bodies (pic attach) w/383 4 BBL Carb. So I emailed MMC Detroit and asked if I should be looking at the model year or the production date to match up the parts. I originally misread 1968 as 1969, so I was thinking I should use production date (69) vs Model Year (70) and wanted to confirm.

They answered and said for my 1970 Charger with 383 4BBL auto the correct part number is 211. That jives with what was on the car, but that means the manual is wrong, correct? So I emailed them back and asked again, if the chart goes by "production date" - they responded NO, use Model Year. That doesn't make sense, then I realize the 211s were actually 68 not 69 (so production date would be wrong anyway), so I emailed them and asked them "how do I read it" and "should I be emailing them for everything" or is there a more updated online database that I can use/subscribe to. They didn't like that, and I got a kurt response email "feel free to return the manual for a full refund". WOW!

I emailed back and told them I didn't mean to hurt their feelings, but am I wrong to expect it to be correct/close? They clearly have different information when I email, so what are other people using for the "definitive Mopar Bible"?

If you made it this far, since the 211s that were on the car seem to be correct (from their email), does anyone know of a shop in SC that re-arches Leaf Springs? I may try to do it myself as I see how-to videos with DIY jigs; however, the long-term success seems questionable.

Thanks
Ross

View attachment 1887011

View attachment 1887012

Check your build sheet for last 3 numbers

 

[rklewis1005]

Check your build sheet for last 3 numbers

yeah, my build sheet was mouse poop years ago.

 

[MWbirdLOVER70]

yeah, my build sheet was mouse poop years ago.

What model year and plant and I’ll look on my 70 RR build sheet St Louis built and your month of build?

 

[mbc0724]

I picked up the 1971-1974 B Body version of the MMI/Dave Wise Master Restoration and Judging Guide and generally found it to be an excellent resource. Of course, on the very first page it states that the guide is a "Work In Progress" as new information is continually discovered and will need to be updated. We have to keep in mind that these reference materials were not in existence in the 1960s-1970s. Nobody cared about originality then--we got these cars in the 1970s, removed a lot of the original equipment immediately (cams, intakes, carbs, exhaust, etc.), and did whatever could be done to make them go faster. I suspect most of the build sheets and plenty of fender tags were tossed right into the garbage can without a second thought during this time. All that mattered was speed. It's great that Wise and his people have now gone back and tried to recreate originality so many years later. Not an easy job, but what they have produced with hundreds of pages of reference materials and many hundreds of photos and diagrams is very helpful--it's just not perfect.