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numbers matching carb?

trishhritz

1972 Scarlet Sue
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I was just wondering where to look to verify what the numbers on a 2 barrel carb for the 400 cid engine in a 1972 Plymouth SSP. I think I found one and the seller claims the numbers are matching for my car. Can anyone help me verify his claim? does anyone have pictures of what the carb should look like? I'm having a hard time finding this info on the internet.
 
The FSM tells you what carb should be on the car from new, and the stamping at the base of the carb is a date code that tells you when the carb was built.
 
Carbs are not considered to be "numbers matching". Numbers matching applies to VIN numbers, meaning the vehicle's VIN, or a portion of the vehicle's VIN, is stamped on the engine block, transmission, rear end, etc. Mopars usually just have the VIN matching between the car and the engine, but other makers add VINs to other components as well.

Carbs are an accessory that can be expected to be replaced over time, same as alternators, power steering pumps, air conditioning compressors, etc., and their removal doesn't affect if a car is numbers matching. Some folks who are really **** when it comes to originality will want parts with date stamps showing they were made at about the same time as the car was, but what's important to most folks is that a car has it's original engine block.
 
Like Bruzilla said, its not a numbers matching thing, but can be a date thing as well and also can be a correct or incorrect item for justthe year, if you want to look at originality. However, its not that critical to have the correct carb for the year unless you are doing a concours restoration. I went through the trouble of finding a correct Thermoquad for my car that came with 73 340 and managed to achieve finding and rebuilding one, however, would have been much easier to put an aftermarket carb on instead, will save a lot of trouble. However, now that I have an original, I will most likely add an after market carb anyway, for reliability aspects! So don't go too crazy over it.
 
Guys, TRUE numbers-matching INCLUDES things like heads, intake, exhaust manifolds, carb, alternator, and much more! For most Moparians, the fact that the engine and trans partial VINs are the same as the car, makes the car "numbers-matching". Not so. You have your opinions and I have mine; but if you are to go by the letter, ALL of this matters to make a true numbers-matching car.

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so when the seller indicates the Carb is an R6370, it is not matching numbers? Do I have that right?

That sounds like the carb model number. I'll look at a couple of AVS/AFB carbs I have and show you a date code off those, here in a bit.
 
I think we are just talking different levels here on numbers matching. A concours 1000 point restoration will certainly have all the correct dated items that Patrick66 says along with engine, trans, rear end, and markings. But you can have a simple numbers matching car with engine and tranny and rear axle, and may not have the correct carb or exhaust manifold (headers) or date coded voltage regulator. Not trying to dissuade you from finding all the matching parts I hope you are successful!
 
Guys, TRUE numbers-matching INCLUDES things like heads, intake, exhaust manifolds, carb, alternator, and much more! For most Moparians, the fact that the engine and trans partial VINs are the same as the car, makes the car "numbers-matching". Not so. You have your opinions and I have mine; but if you are to go by the letter, ALL of this matters to make a true numbers-matching car.

That's a negative Ghostrider. :) You can't have "numbers matching" criteria with components that are not marked with a VIN. You can have date or date code-correct parts, and correct part numbers, but parts like carbs, alternator, exhaust manifolds, etc., are not marked with a VIN or a portion of a VIN, so they are not counted as "numbers matching" criteria. It's impossible to identify any of these parts as being original to a car since they are not so marked. In this case, his 72 may have an R6368 carb but there is no way to prove that's the carb that came with that car. Worse, the car could have had an R6454 carb put on by the factory if the car was made late in the run, or even an R4666 if they ran out of R6368s and needed to install an equivalent carb to get the car on down the line, and all those would be factory-installed carbs.

Chrysler never cared much for consistency when building our cars, and they ordered "X" number of any of these parts for a production schedule, and when they ran out they would use whatever was available, especially near the end of a model-year run, so it was common to have next year's parts installed on a previous year's car.

This also opens the dreaded "dealer installed" door that is always better left shut. :) A car gets delivered to a dealership and they find an alternator or carb or pump is bad, so they pull and replace it before it is put out for sale. Is that car still original? Is it no longer original because the factory didn't put it on? Same deal with the quality guys at Chrysler. If alternator A was installed on the line and failed QA, and a new alternator was installed, is the car still "factory original"?

It's nonsense like this that I've been watching Mopar guys fight over for decades now. I don't see Brand X guys debating this stuff, probably because their brands made a gazillion of every model year car. Since Mopar production was only a fraction of those numbers, our cars have always been much more exclusive and some owners have to really go into the weeds to differentiate their cars from others.
 
That's a negative Ghostrider. :) You can't have "numbers matching" criteria with components that are not marked with a VIN. You can have date or date code-correct parts, and correct part numbers, but parts like carbs, alternator, exhaust manifolds, etc., are not marked with a VIN or a portion of a VIN, so they are not counted as "numbers matching" criteria. It's impossible to identify any of these parts as being original to a car since they are not so marked. In this case, his 72 may have an R6368 carb but there is no way to prove that's the carb that came with that car. Worse, the car could have had an R6454 carb put on by the factory if the car was made late in the run, or even an R4666 if they ran out of R6368s and needed to install an equivalent carb to get the car on down the line, and all those would be factory-installed carbs.

Chrysler never cared much for consistency when building our cars, and they ordered "X" number of any of these parts for a production schedule, and when they ran out they would use whatever was available, especially near the end of a model-year run, so it was common to have next year's parts installed on a previous year's car.

This also opens the dreaded "dealer installed" door that is always better left shut. :) A car gets delivered to a dealership and they find an alternator or carb or pump is bad, so they pull and replace it before it is put out for sale. Is that car still original? Is it no longer original because the factory didn't put it on? Same deal with the quality guys at Chrysler. If alternator A was installed on the line and failed QA, and a new alternator was installed, is the car still "factory original"?

It's nonsense like this that I've been watching Mopar guys fight over for decades now. I don't see Brand X guys debating this stuff, probably because their brands made a gazillion of every model year car. Since Mopar production was only a fraction of those numbers, our cars have always been much more exclusive and some owners have to really go into the weeds to differentiate their cars from others.

THANK YOU , well put . tired of numbers matching this and that when there are absolutely NO numbers to match prior to 1968. only a date code.
 
so when the seller indicates the Carb is an R6370, it is not matching numbers? Do I have that right?
R6370 is a correct '72 variant of the Holley 2210 series 2bbl carb originally used on 400s built for sale in California. Would only be technically correct if your car was built for sale in California.
 
Carbs are not considered to be "numbers matching". Numbers matching applies to VIN numbers, meaning the vehicle's VIN, or a portion of the vehicle's VIN, is stamped on the engine block, transmission, rear end, etc. Mopars usually just have the VIN matching between the car and the engine, but other makers add VINs to other components as well.

Carbs are an accessory that can be expected to be replaced over time, same as alternators, power steering pumps, air conditioning compressors, etc., and their removal doesn't affect if a car is numbers matching. Some folks who are really **** when it comes to originality will want parts with date stamps showing they were made at about the same time as the car was, but what's important to most folks is that a car has it's original engine block.
Agree, “Numbers Matching” refers mostly to serial numbers and components containing serial/partial serial numbers, would have to disagree slightly when it comes to carburetor numbers on cars from this era. The ‘list” or “carb” numbers discussed here are the labeling of variations of a particular model or series of carburetors from carb manufactures for OE applications. Identifying an OEM carb calibrated specifically to a specific engine, transmission, model year, and, or emission systems requirement (California vs. federal spec). While differences between some variations may be ever so slight, never saw the wrong carb number on any car arriving at the dealers back in the day. Dealer & factory replacement carbs is another story, some replacement numbers superseded to other numbers or multiple OE numbers were superseded to a single replacement number. But carbs numbers were never interchanged on the factory assembly line. When fuel leaks and engine fires were problem for the Holley 4160 OEM carbs, there was a factory provided Cater AVS conversion kit installed by dealers on some cars. These AVS numbers will not be found in the FSM but are technically factory correct.
 
Guys... this should really be a no brainer. :) The classification of a "Numbers Matching" car requires a means to authenticate that a car is actually a Numbers Matching car. If you can not authenticate that fact, then the classification is itself meaningless. This is why Numbers Matching is based on the vehicle's VIN number. This is the only identifier of a vehicle that can be authenticated. The purpose of the classification is to verify originality, and you can't verify the originality of non-VIN marked components!

You can say that a vehicle should have a particular model/part number and date code component, but it is absolutely impossible to prove that a component with the correct model/part number and date code is in fact the actual component that came with the car from the factory. This is why the numbers matching classification is limited to VIN-marked major components only. If Patrick66's contention were the industry standard, it would be impossible to ever have a numbers matching car because you could never prove that it is a numbers matching car because there's no non-VIN marked components you can authenticate as original. If that were the case the designation of number's matching would be even less relevant than it is now.

Hate to say it, but the whole correct date code/part number mania is brought to you by the same guys who think their car is a 1 of 1 because it was the only car of that make/model/year/drivetrain/interior/color/stereo option that has an inspection mark that's 1/4" longer than usual because the inspector was coming off a weekend drunkex. No, your car is one of however many were made of that make/model/year and powertrain. Any additional differentiation you want to add beyond that is just a testament to your own vanity and not a hobby standard any more than date codes.
 
1969 BOSS 302s had specific numbers matching carbs...in a sense.
Same with the RAM AIR IV GTOs and the 427/435HP Vettes...as did the Max wedge and Hemi cars...
But the VIN serial numbers were not on the carbs.

Essentially this original "poster" wants the original style carb on his car.
Why?
I don't know.
 
Well, there are all levels of collectors. Some want the best performance, some want originality, and God bless them all. As for me, I'll strap a J79 to a car to get better performance. :)
 
1969 BOSS 302s had specific numbers matching carbs...in a sense.
Same with the RAM AIR IV GTOs and the 427/435HP Vettes...as did the Max wedge and Hemi cars...
But the VIN serial numbers were not on the carbs.

Essentially this original "poster" wants the original style carb on his car.
Why?
I don't know.
Correct, carb numbering was no different with other automotive manufactures from the time. Simply identified configuration and calibration of a model or series of carburetors for a specific OE application.
Agree, the OP is looking to verify a correct replacement for his specific application, “numbers correct”. Only two numbers for the ’72 400 2bbl automatic, R6368A (Federal) and R6370A (California).
 
Wow, I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I just want the car to be original, no other reason. I located a carb that is rebuild-able but technically is the right car for a CA car, which is where I am located, even though the car is an Arizona car (had to find one with minimal rust). It currently has an Edelbrock perf four barrel and I would like to go back to the two barrel mainly to improve the gas mileage on the car. But I've learned a lot about the topic (i didn't know there were different carbs on CA cars vs the rest of them), so thank you all for your input. I think I will get the R6370 next payday.
 
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