• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Windage Tray ????

grubby65

Well-Known Member
Local time
7:58 AM
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
161
Reaction score
131
Location
Blue Hill
I was going to install a windage tray in my 500 cubic B block and my engine builder suggested not to. He said in his experience the windage tray does more harm than good in a big block mopar, actually slowing the time it takes for the oil to get to the pan. He said Chevy yes, mopar no. I was wanting to get others thoughts on this.
 
I disagree with your engine builder. I have been running windage trays on big block Mopars for over 30 yrs. and wouldn't build a motor without one.....it's cheap, it works, they came factory on many motors & never had a problem with one.
 
I disagree with your engine builder. I have been running windage trays on big block Mopars for over 30 yrs. and wouldn't build a motor without one.....it's cheap, it works, they came factory on many motors & never had a problem with one.
Definitely not disagreeing with you, just what he told me, and I trust him. I thought it was an odd statement also. But, his comment to me was, "have you ever seen a dyno test done on a big block Mopar before and after the installation of a windage tray?", and honestly I couldn't think of one. I'm basically going write the rest of this like he is talking so I'm not writing in third person. The job of a windage tray is to get the oil off of the crank and back into the pan so it is not acting like a pump. When the crank has oil whipped up in it, there will be a horsepower drag. To tell if a windage tray is doing it's job you can dyno before and after, if there is no horsepower change it isn't doing anything. The design of a big block mopar's block reduces the effect of the crank picking up oil and keeping it in suspension.
 
tell me why a chevy? I mean they both do the same thing. A windage tray is closer to the crank in a chevy.
 
tell me why a chevy? I mean they both do the same thing. A windage tray is closer to the crank in a chevy.
I asked him the same question. He asked have you ever looked a the difference between a small block chevy and a big block Chrysler? Honestly I hadn't, but he told me take a close look at it. Once again writing in third person here. In a small block chevy the centerline of the crank is at the bottom of the block where in a big block Chrysler it is not. There is a small amount of the counter weight that extends below the block so the tendency to keep oil in suspension is greatly reduced, where as with a small block chevy the counter weights are much closer to the oil level.

If someone has seen dyno sheets before and after a windage tray in a big block I would like to see them.
 
I was going to install a windage tray in my 500 cubic B block and my engine builder suggested not to. He said in his experience the windage tray does more harm than good in a big block mopar, actually slowing the time it takes for the oil to get to the pan. He said Chevy yes, mopar no. I was wanting to get others thoughts on this.
The high performance oil pump would suck an oil pan dry in about 15-16 sec, this would be bad for someone blasting down a highway for a long time, so maybe your builder is thinking about that. The factory oil pump is plenty adequate for street / strip use and does not have this problem, windage tray or not. There are plenty of mopar magazines and hot rod, etc. where they have done 360,408,440 builds showing a windage tray to be beneficial
 
Well, I am sure your engine builder is way smarter than the engineering department of any automotive engine manufacturer.
 
I always use or add a windage tray to my builds. No dyno back to back comparisons to compare with or without one.
 
Well, I am sure your engine builder is way smarter than the engineering department of any automotive engine manufacturer.
Seriously, why did you go there. You don't even know the guy who builds my motors. But since you asked he has a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering, started his own design/build firm, sold it for a bunch of money, and now for the fun of it builds automotive and airplane engines.

So, yes he may be.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I would like to see a dyno sheet on a big block mopar, not a small block mopar, or a chevy. This wasn't meant to be a smarter than thou thread, it was a simple question and I was looking for information, not opinions.
 
Myron... carefull with the windage tray as I've see oil pressure issues on the dyno using them and power loss as they keep the oil up in the crank area at hi rpm. Wipers are great but stuff too close to the crank is not...

Some of the top race engine builders throw those windage trays away. Thinking now is get rid of anything that could slow the oil's return to the sump where the oil pump can pick it up. I haven't used a windage tray for several years. The guys at Reher & Morrison Racing Engines (I have known David Reher for close to forty years) were the first ones to recommend me doing that.

Just some things I picked up off the NET doing a quick search. I realize the second one deals with a chevy, but Reher & Morrison probably know a little bit about motors.
 
I asked him the same question. He asked have you ever looked a the difference between a small block chevy and a big block Chrysler? Honestly I hadn't, but he told me take a close look at it. Once again writing in third person here. In a small block chevy the centerline of the crank is at the bottom of the block where in a big block Chrysler it is not. There is a small amount of the counter weight that extends below the block so the tendency to keep oil in suspension is greatly reduced, where as with a small block chevy the counter weights are much closer to the oil level.

If someone has seen dyno sheets before and after a windage tray in a big block I would like to see them.

I disagree with his thinking. Yes the blocks are different. BB Mopar has a full skirted block and SB Chevy doesn't but the difference is made up with the pans. SB Chevy has a much deeper pan than the BB Mopar. Cranks aren't any closer to the oil level.
The factory would not have spend the money on trays if there wasn't any benefit.
 
I was going to install a windage tray in my 500 cubic B block and my engine builder suggested not to. He said in his experience the windage tray does more harm than good in a big block mopar, actually slowing the time it takes for the oil to get to the pan. He said Chevy yes, mopar no. I was wanting to get others thoughts on this.

Nothing wrong with challenging conventional wisdom.

I don't know anyone that is serious about performance that does not use one, unless they are using something else in its place that is more sophisticated. But that does not really prove anything.

I would argue that Chrysler engineers did put them in performance applications. Logic suggests that if they did not have clear evidence that a tray helped, they wouldn't have installed them. Being in the manufacturing sector for over 40 year has proven to me that no company would add a nickel to the cost of production for nothing meaningful, or measurable.

I believe there has been documented dyno testing that a tray helps on a BBM, but just because you or the rest of use cannot locate them does not mean they do not exist. BMM trays have been used for 50 years. Most testing was probably done 40 years ago. Until you've researched all of the performance magazines since 1970, it would be silly to conclude that none exist.

Did you or your guy make the comparison statement between BBM and SBC oil pans? If it was him that made the statement, I would be a little concerned. Look at the difference between the two pans and I think it is obvious that the oil to crankshaft difference is about the same between the two.

Finally, do you have proof or evidence that it hurts performance, or any other key aspect of the engine operation other than from this guy?

For me, the indirect evidence and logic suggest to me that it does not hurt to have a tray, and maybe it helps.

If you find out different, let us know.
 
I disagree with his thinking. Yes the blocks are different. BB Mopar has a full skirted block and SB Chevy doesn't but the difference is made up with the pans. SB Chevy has a much deeper pan than the BB Mopar. Cranks aren't any closer to the oil level.
The factory would not have spend the money on trays if there wasn't any benefit.

Wow. Looks like you hit the send button a few minutes before me. Your message is much cleaner than mine too.
 
I use them in most things. I do not bother on an engine that will not rev hard. I do not have dyno info but I read somewhere years ago they were worth 10 horsepower as you got up in the revs.
Their main job in my mind is to protect the oil in the bottom of the sump from the crankshaft.
I also read somewhere if the sump was deep enough they were not needed, thinking now I believe it was in a book written by Bill Jenkins. However this is not the case in most street cars having to worry about ground clearance etc.
 
Dyno test would show any horsepower difference for sure, but isn't the real point of a windage tray to keep the crankshaft from aerating your oil on acceleration and stops? You can't replicate those types of driving conditions on a dyno.
 
No dyno back to back comparisons to compare with or without one.

I went searchin for some info and came up pretty empty. I know and have seen in Mopar rags in the past, articles about windage trays but search again comes up empty. This is the only thing I could find, there's a chart towards the bottom of article. Good Luck
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopar-440-update/
 
I went searchin for some info and came up pretty empty. I know and have seen in Mopar rags in the past, articles about windage trays but search again comes up empty. This is the only thing I could find, there's a chart towards the bottom of article. Good Luck
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopar-440-update/
Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for.
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top