How do you test the orange ignition box?

Electrical & Ignition

  1. 6290988

    6290988 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know I had electronic ignition before I ordered the pertronix parts. I didn't pull the dist cap before I installed the pertronix coil to see if i had points...I assumed I had points. I'm guessing when I bypassed the ballast resistor like pertronix instructions say and I left the stock mopar electronic ignition installed I may have fried my orange box because I was an idiot and tried to start it that way. I put it all back to stock with the coil and ballet resistor. It won't start now. I get no spark at the plug. The gap on the thing inside the distributor is 008.


    How many ohms resistance should the ballast resistor read? The one on the car reads 17-19 now. The new one I just bought reads 7.

    The wire that gets power that plugs into the electronic ignition box (oranage box) reads just over 11 volts.

    Does this seem right?

    IMG_2742.JPG
     
  2. Fran Blacker

    Fran Blacker Well-Known Member

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    Believe the O box gets 12 volts not reduced voltage after ballast resistor.
     
  3. 66Satellite47

    66Satellite47 Well-Known Member

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    Well decide if you have points or a magnetic distributor. They aren't the same & don't look the same with the cap off.
     
  4. 6290988

    6290988 Well-Known Member

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    I know what I have now, I didn't know before I installed the pertronix coil because I was an idiot and didnt pull the dist cap. I have a mopar electronic ignition. Once I realized it I think the damage was done.

    I've narrowed it down to the ballast resistor or the orange box.
     
  5. NJRR

    NJRR Well-Known Member

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  6. kiwigtx

    kiwigtx International Mod Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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    After I installed my Rev-N-Nator ECU, I gave my old Orange box the "drop test" - I think I got 4 skips along the driveway before it came to rest under a tree. :lol:

    http://www.thertgarage.com/products.html
     
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    • Nacho-RT74

      Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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      Jump out the resistor won't burn the ignition box. The resistor is actually just for the coil.

      A Performance single resistor should be around 0,5 and 1 ohm, while a stock one will be on 1,5 ohms rate.

      There is an article around about you can run ECU ign system without ballast being just a compromise for the coil

      http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1110-ballast-resistor-guide-ballast-blast-off/

      For me this, has being a debate allways.

      Also, even I'm somehow electrical handy, allways have asked about the secondary resistor function on 5 pins, dual ballast setup. 4 pins got this internally, hence they are not being feeded externally anymore from secondary resistor or even using single one.
       
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      • Nacho-RT74

        Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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        There is one test you can make checking for ground at one of the pins used for the pickup coil at ECU, what should have continuity with ground. It's on my Haynes manual. Can't recall which one of both pins. IMHO that's not a full test for the ECU but just partial. ECU must be good grounded.

        Another check. Pickup coil must be read around 150 and 900 ohms ( 250-300 tipical ) check that at ECU plug! Sometimes they get wires inside broken, or a miss contact on dist plug. Checking at ECU plug will make sure the triggering is arriving to.

        You can check aslo for continuity on black traced yellow wire ( - lead of coil ) and same wire at ECU end.

        Blue traced yellow wire must get also 12 volts at ECU plug.

        If everything of that tests good you want to confirm your ign system is in working order, get a cheap standard LX 101 ECU ( which is 4 pins ) and install to check if engine starts on. Will work as a trunk spare. That will give you the definitive answer on the ECU.
         
        Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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        • 6290988

          6290988 Well-Known Member

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          This is what's weird. I test the ECU and I get the 300+ohms. When I check volts I get just over 11.

          Should I be getting any voltage to the red wire that goes to the dist cap?
           
        • 6290988

          6290988 Well-Known Member

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          It's got to be something simple.

          It ran fine before I hooked up the pertronix coil. I jumped the ballast. Noticed I had electronic ign and decided to try to start it. It wouldn't start.

          I put the original coil back in and hooked back up to the ballast and it still won't start.

          I'm half tempted to buy that setup that kiwigtx posted and also get a new engine wiring harness from classic industries to replace this rats nest of wires from previous owners.
           
        • Nacho-RT74

          Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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          Red wire at dist cap? There is not red wire at dist. Original colors at dist plug on engine harness are brown and gray traced. Then replacement pick up coils are with black and orange wires

          11 volts is good to go

          300 ohms from pickup coil is good too, but the ground signal at one of the two ECU pins what is sourced from pickup coil ( can't recall which one ) must be 0

          Just replace the ECU. For whatever reason could got damaged and IS NOT related to the coil change or ballast bypass. Just came it turns to die. Remember ign system bypass in fact by default the ballast to the coil when cranking.

          If you wanna be sure on the cheap, get as mentioned the Standard LX101 ECU at any local parts store... or search on ebay for a FILKHO CH500 unit ( or something like that ). Then if works then choose to keep it on engine bay or as spare and get a new performance unit.

          Mopar Performance ECUs are latelly prone to earlier failures ( BTDT, 3 Chromed boxes in couple of years ). You can try another one or get the Rev-N-Nator

          Personally I have tested Orange and Chromed boxes. Chromed is way far superior. If MP units weren't having quality issues, mostly sure I would have stuck with the Chromed box and never got worried about try any other. I simply fall into the Rev-N-Nator by need, tired of constant ECU failures and honestly, will never get back to another diff one.
           
          Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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          • Nacho-RT74

            Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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            This is then ECU pin must be checked for ground

            image.jpg
             
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            • 6290988

              6290988 Well-Known Member

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              I picked up LX101 this morning and it started right up. Thanks for the help.
               
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              • 6290988

                6290988 Well-Known Member

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                Question for you Nacho...is the LX101 going to make the car idle lower than the orange box?
                 
              • Nacho-RT74

                Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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                Lx101 is a stock replacement ( as it does the LX100 which as far I recall is the same but 5 pins ). I never have used the unit itself, but have read lot of testimonials about being a good quality unit for stock replacement.

                Iddle rpm has nothing to do with module by itself, but quality of the iddle due the spark response from iddle up to X rpms it does.

                You can get a better iddle or not, but is not related with the rpms really like the quality of the spark and timming control from the ignition module working together with the rest of parts of the ign system and camshaft itself

                You can get the same iddle rpms from several GOOD modules from stock up to performance units.

                A bad quaility module or damaged unit with a bad iddle will mostly response baddly at any Rpms and not just at iddle.

                And of course, a module with a great high rpms response should also get a nice iddle.

                Dunno if you got what I meant.
                 
                Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
              • 6290988

                6290988 Well-Known Member

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                I understand what you're saying. So before I did this it would idle between 900-1200 and had a stutter in park. In drive with my foot on the brake it would idle around 800-900 with a stutter. Replaced my plug wires due to two plug wires have burns through them. I feel that's where my stutter came from

                Now it idles around 700-800 in park and around 400-500 in drive with foot on brake. It doesn't stall but feels like it's on the verge of stalling. I haven't messed with the carter comp carb yet. The more I dig into this car I realize how much of a clown the previous owner was. Things were done half assed.

                I'm wondering if he messed with timing to compensate for the crappy plug wires. It's running better now that it was so I guess I shouldn't complain.
                 
              • Nacho-RT74

                Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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                I edited a bit my previous reply just right when you were quoting

                Ok, that it means the orange module was ready to fail since long time ago

                I'm not really THE expert on ignition and timming setups, just share my poor an unexpert experience and my feelings

                I have used and compared several modules
                -Old stock replacement Cobra unit ( similar to the Filkho I mentioned earlier.
                -Old A688 FBO
                -Chromed MP
                -Orange MP
                -Cheap Chinesse replacement I had to get on the road when one of my Chromed went out
                -High Rev 7500 being sold by Rick Erhenberg ( I allways forgett how it spells its last name ) at ebay.
                -My actual Rev-N-Nator

                I could get small differences on iddle? Yes of course, but not related with iddle speed like the spark response. But not really a Huuughe diference. With those differences I allways could set the iddle the same. I have tested allmost everyone with my stock 400 and my actual "451". I could feel differences on everyone on iddle and throttle response, really small at iddle as mentioned, but ALWAYS could set my iddle at around 800-850 with everyone. My car got A/C which I actually use and at this moment MP 175K econo converter without any problem. Even with the stock converter could do it!

                Need to say my car was a driver ( is at body shop since 4 years ago ) and will be again allmost a driver... living on tropic on a dangerous country I REALLY use the A/C to keep my windows up saving a bit from thieves.
                 
              • Nacho-RT74

                Nacho-RT74 Well-Known Member

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                can give you an advice? Keep an eye on the charging system being sure is in GREAT conditions and with an alt able to feed the car requirements at iddle. A bad charging system with an alt unable to feed the car requirments at iddle will beat the ign module sooner than expected. Ign module can get overheated requesting the right load fom the charging system to work propperly
                 
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                • 6290988

                  6290988 Well-Known Member

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