Worst engine ever?

[cr8crshr]

The one I am currently having to deal with in my 1966 Plymouth Satellite Project. I have been forced to obtain another short block to fix the built in failures from the A**HOLE builder I first relied upon. Never again...

 

[MoparBill]

GM's 231 V6 that came in Regals and Cutlasses-the cams were soft and would wear out quick.

 

[Al K]

GM's 231 V6 that came in Regals and Cutlasses-the cams were soft and would wear out quick.

...And,I can tell you why: The employees who worked in the Bay City plant where these and the 305 V-8 cams were cast were told to rush them through the heat-treat process to keep up the production numbers. I worked with a number of those folks when I worked at the Saginaw Foundry,where many of them had transferred to. They were threatened with termination after reporting to their bosses that the cams were not being completely treated and were told to just "keep the line running-or else". Doubt what I say? I spent 35 years in various GM plants and have a hell of a lot of similar stories.

Now;the worst mill I ever dealt with was the GM 3.4 liter Dual Over-Head Cam V-6 from the late 1980's/early 1990's. Myself and the other Test Mechanics in the Lab referred to it as the Dork or Joke engine. It used "spiral" springs on the ends of the cams,which naturally came loose(usually at 6000rpm on the dyno) and were an absolute bee-otch to work on. While the V-6(3.8L/90 degree) Buick Gen 1 and Gen 2 were tough as nails(I know;we beat the shite out of them on the dynos),perhaps the toughest was a little 60 degree 3.1 liter V-6 that we ran for a while. Totally gutless,but would we could wing it to 7grr+ on the stand and it stayed together. At the request of an engineer,we actually tried to break one by trying to take it to 9 grand-the absolute limit of our dynos. We broke the dyno,not the engine. Tough little SOB,that one.

I've known mech's at a couple of foreign-car dealers who swore at the various designs from Asia-mostly due to the complexity of the mills. Hard to beat good ol' pushrod simplicity.

 

[Budnicks]

I don't know about the Pinto that you had Bud, but I had a 72 Pinto hatchback back in the late 70s that I used to commute to work in Seattle. I used to drive the crap out of that thing and never had a spot of trouble with it. It had the 2.0 with a 4 speed. I heard that the 2L engines were actually made in Germany. I actually rodded the thing a little with a cam, header. and adjustable cam sprocket. It was actually fairly quick from 0 to 60. I kind of wish I still had it.

yeah it never broke on me always when Pops was driving it....

 

[Cranky]

The dodge 4.7 is one of the worst in my opinion. The oil sludge problems are very bad starting at 95000 kms. I changed my oil religiously at 5000 km and still had sludge. My fuse box connections corroded too, leaving me with major electronic problems. Plus its lacking power in a 5000 lb ram truck.

Man, I've heard so many horror stories about sludge build up. What caused it?

yep , I know of 3 that lost oil pressure out of no where. complete garbage

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the 1998 - 2002 2.7 litre engines were complete sludge garbage engines. we had an 02 concord we got rid of 2 days after I googled 2.7 litre sludge . we got 2900 bucks trade value and 2 weeks later it locked up at 63,000 miles

i remember guys talking about not being able to open the door on the Vegas after going for a romp. they said due to the torque of the v8, that it twisted the chassis lol!

See my reply above....

...And,I can tell you why: The employees who worked in the Bay City plant where these and the 305 V-8 cams were cast were told to rush them through the heat-treat process to keep up the production numbers. I worked with a number of those folks when I worked at the Saginaw Foundry,where many of them had transferred to. They were threatened with termination after reporting to their bosses that the cams were not being completely treated and were told to just "keep the line running-or else". Doubt what I say? I spent 35 years in various GM plants and have a hell of a lot of similar stories.

Now;the worst mill I ever dealt with was the GM 3.4 liter Dual Over-Head Cam V-6 from the late 1980's/early 1990's. Myself and the other Test Mechanics in the Lab referred to it as the Dork or Joke engine. It used "spiral" springs on the ends of the cams,which naturally came loose(usually at 6000rpm on the dyno) and were an absolute bee-otch to work on. While the V-6(3.8L/90 degree) Buick Gen 1 and Gen 2 were tough as nails(I know;we beat the shite out of them on the dynos),perhaps the toughest was a little 60 degree 3.1 liter V-6 that we ran for a while. Totally gutless,but would we could wing it to 7grr+ on the stand and it stayed together. At the request of an engineer,we actually tried to break one by trying to take it to 9 grand-the absolute limit of our dynos. We broke the dyno,not the engine. Tough little SOB,that one.

I've known mech's at a couple of foreign-car dealers who swore at the various designs from Asia-mostly due to the complexity of the mills. Hard to beat good ol' pushrod simplicity.

I have a friend who's whole family worked for Chrysler including his parents, sisters and brothers and have heard some crazy stories! I worked at a steel mill for several years in the 70's and saw some crazy stuff so I can only imagine what all went on at auto plants....from the kind of stuff what you mentioned all the way to crashing a car or two once it was off the line.

 

[YY1]

V8 vegas we real popular whar I grew up. Saw MANY that couldn't keep a windshield in.

The 4.3 gm's in our fleet trucks and vans were pretty decent. I had an s10 that would chirp 2nd!
All the stuff attached to them broke in stupid ways though.
One big complaint was factory routing of vacuum lines and fittings laying on stuff that got REAL hot.


I'd say the 318 ranks up there in the top bracket (best, that is). It's a really good compromise between power and economy.
It's relatively easy to work on, and really doesn't break much.

Too bad the 3.8 lost all the power and didn't get any better ecomomy.

- - - Updated - - -

...and for all the hoopla and urban legends...I was really NOT impressed with the 351 Cleveland.

It was a BITCH to work on-
exhibit A is the pooling of water right on top of the distributor shaft into block area.
exhibit B is a gasket and sheet metal timing cover "trapped" by the harmonic balancer that has to be addressed when changing the water pump!
...and it wasn't really any more powerfull that a good 302.

...and it ate starters.

 

[snakeoil24]

Volkswagon Bug engines Pugeot and Chevrolet Vega all crap.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Ht 4100

 

[43tutor]

I had a 1970 Ford short bed stepside truck with a 240 inline 6 banger, 3 speed manual on the column. The engine ran great but I could only squeeze 72 mph top end speed out of that old truck and that was going down hill with a tailwind and rocks in my pockets. Too slow for me.....sold that old truck to my neighbor.

 

[306Doba]

The old 3.3L Caravans lol

 

[Budnicks]

V8 vegas we real popular whar I grew up. Saw MANY that couldn't keep a windshield in.

that's too funny... I only had problems with the hatch lid popping open or the quarter windows popping open, even with my little 377ci SB, w/Mondello heads, full roller, with a "smokey ram" w/850cfm Holley, th350 & Gremlin rear end, the car even had a bolt-in roll-bar & home made ladder-bars, still did it even after I put sub-frame connectors in it too, twisty little car but it was never beaten on the street either... oh the fun I had with that POS V-8 Vega... I had one w/468 BBC but had full chassis & cage, no twisten' that one...

 

[WP29440SE]

Man, I've heard so many horror stories about sludge build up. What caused it?

From 1998-2002 2.7L Engines are prone to premature catastrophic engine failure due to a defectively designed Timing Chain Tensioner that Chrysler quietly redesigned. Unfortunately, many consumers have had to pay out of their own pockets for this while Chrysler avoids responsibility.



From 1998-2004 Dodge / Chrysler 2.7L Engines are prone to Oil Sludge often caused by internal coolant leakage that has to do with the design of the Water Pump that allows coolant to enter the Engine over time and cause oil sludge, experts at a well known remanufacturing company say. The second common cause of engine sludge is from poor oil circulation caused by oil passages that are too narrow causing the oil to wear down more rapidly unlike normal engines. Another contributing oil sludge factor is possibly due to an inadequately designed PCV system that can also accelerate engine oil breakdown, which Chrysler later made improvements to for the 2005 model year along with other changes knowledgeable sources state. Although Chrysler is aware and there is nothing consumers could have done to cause this, Chrysler still regularly blames consumers for 2.7L Engine Oil Sludge.

 

[wannadrag]

The old 3.3L Caravans lol

Have one out back thats runs with 160K but has bad tranny.I would say that aint to bad.

 

[Mooky]

nope...you can't knock the Chrysler 3.3.....just the 3.0 ...both had horrible problems with shift solenoids in the trans....imho..the worst is the ford romeo v8's or Triton..built in the late 90's to early mid 2000's...bad cam phasers..broken exhaust manny's..oil leaks every...low power to weight ratio and many head scratching secondary ignition electrical problems..the problem is circled on the front ;)

 

[Pops1967GTX]

I'm a diesel power guy. How about The Oldsmobile 5.7 liter diesel engine as one of the worst.. GM tried to transform an engine block designed for gasoline into a diesel engine for its Oldsmobile line of the 88's & 98's.......


Injection pumps damaged from additives used to combat water in the fuel systemmany issues.... A bitch to replace it also.....Cylinder head bolts breaking.....smoke beltching behemothshat, rushing crap to production for the gas shortage.....Also, in 1977 Dodge offered pickups with a Mitsubishi 6 cylinder diesel....it didnt sell well

 

[ws27]

nope...you can't knock the Chrysler 3.3.....just the 3.0 ...both had horrible problems with shift solenoids in the trans....imho..the worst is the ford romeo v8's or Triton..built in the late 90's to early mid 2000's...bad cam phasers..broken exhaust manny's..oil leaks every...low power to weight ratio and many head scratching secondary ignition electrical problems..the problem is circled on the front ;)

Don't forget about the engines shooting the plugs right out the head. Seen a few dented hoods. What idiot thought only two threads in the aluminum were OK? Oh yah, the same itiot who came up with the repair procedure that involved changing the head out instead of heil-a-coiling it. Ford not only circles their problem, but they highlight it in blue!

 

[scotts74birds]

I have re-built a number of the Chrysler 2.7's. I have seen the sludging and thrown thrown timing chains. Usually with a rod-knock thrown in!
I'll post this since most of us Mopar fans also drive other Chryslers.
I'm Starting at the top, the head castings are absolute ****. Tons of casting flash everywhere. Most notably in the oil-return holes. The rocker pedestals are natural oil pockets. The casting is so rough that oil would be slowed on its return. This would subject the oil to a much longer high-heat situation. Over time, this causes the oil to break-down much faster. The rough portions of the casting were a perfect place for oil to sit and bake. Fresh oil would also be slowed by having to flow over the tacky sludge, starting a process that feeds on itself. Result, slow oil return to the pan for cooling and possible oil starvation.
Next, the dodgy water-pump that can leak into the crankcase. Antifreeze will also sludge Dino-oil.
Then there is the timing chain tensioner. This thing is spring-loaded. But, it is oil-dampend! So low oil pressure caused by slow return will cause this item to actually BOUNCE! And that will cause you to jump time. Since this is an interference motor, you can see the downside of that.
The oil pressure sender on these is set at 4-6 psi. So instead of flashing the red "oil-can" light, it might as well just say "Too Late"!
But they can be fixed. I start with lots of die-grinding in the heads to clean them up. Then onto the water-pump with a quality unit and a smear of Permatex Hylomar around the O-ring. Then I install a timing-chain "stop-block" that limits the slacking of the chain in the event of tensioner "bounce" or failure. And finally, I only use synthetic in these motors as it can handle the heat, and resists sludging when mixed with antifreeze.
So far I'm at 32k miles with my rebuilds, on 7-8000 mile oil changes with synthetic oil and Napa Gold filters. And no sign of sludge. BTW, Napa Synthetic is made by Valvoline, and is usually on sale for around $20 for a 5 quart jug, with a free filter.
Another trick I also use is to attach a "rare-earth" magnet to my oil filter and drain plug to catch any of the nasties. Not really needed with an aluminum motor, but helpful for our older iron-motors.

 

[kb67mopar]

in my experience the chryco 4.7 can be saved if taken care of properly. It shares a few issues with oil sludge with the 2.7 but if you use synthentic oil and change it regularly it doesn't have too many issues. I had one in my 2002 Dakota and I put HO cams in it, the thing got up and went pretty dang good, way better then my grandfathers 318 dakota.

Another terrible motor was the GM 305. Gutless POS...it was nothing more than scrap iron.

 

[YY1]

Scots74birds- NICE writeup!


...uh we have a winner for most creative descriptive term-

"behemothshat"

 

[WileE]

I'm a diesel power guy. How about The Oldsmobile 5.7 liter diesel engine as one of the worst.. GM tried to transform an engine block designed for gasoline into a diesel engine for its Oldsmobile line of the 88's & 98's.......

And Cutlass ! I know because I bought one new right after the 2nd phony gas-shortage. Worst piece of garbage that ever infested an engine compartment.