Main Stud Girdle's Yes or No

[moparcrazy]

Wondering How many of you guys are running these Girdles and do they really make a difference

 

[1967coronet440]

Subscribed to this thread, I need to figure out if I'm using one for my 505 build

 

[moparcrazy]

1967coronet440 me too ! Building a 500 CI and my Engine builder thinks its a waist unless you use dowel pins to keep it stable or from shifting, he's saying the bolts aren't good enough.

"All input is appreciated" IQ52 ?

 

[bobtile]

The people that make them strongly suggest you use them.
Builders I have spoken to aren't sold on them. One builder said it wouldn't hurt.
I opted not to use one on my build. Billet main caps and studs.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I can tell you they work on sb fords and are a must unless your using an aftermarket block. I've installed a lot of them on 302/351's. going off my ford knowledge I've used a few on bb Mopars. The mopar engines I've built with them I have not had back apart to inspect as of yet. I do believe they are worth while though. The mopar ones are better than the fords so I have no reason to doubt they work.

 

[Budnicks]

I can tell you they work on sb fords and are a must unless your using an aftermarket block. I've installed a lot of them on 302/351's. going off my ford knowledge I've used a few on bb Mopars. The mopar engines I've built with them I have not had back apart to inspect as of yet. I do believe they are worth while though. The mopar ones are better than the fords so I have no reason to doubt they work.

View attachment 399662

What he said...

 

[moparcrazy]

I can tell you they work on sb fords and are a must unless your using an aftermarket block. I've installed a lot of them on 302/351's. going off my ford knowledge I've used a few on bb Mopars. The mopar engines I've built with them I have not had back apart to inspect as of yet. I do believe they are worth while though. The mopar ones are better than the fords so I have no reason to doubt they work.

View attachment 399662

68 HemiGTS Whats your thought on using 4-dowle's to keep Girdle from shifting ?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

is the thought to dowl it to the pan rail? I think anything you do to stabilize the bottom end is good. You could machine studs with a shoulder for the pan rail easy enough instead of using dowls to lock it into place. Either is pretty easy. The thing is locked down pretty well though so I'm not sure movement is even an issue. If I was that worried about it I may be inclined to upgrade the caps also. Chenosworth makes a really nice kit with alum caps and girdle that mate together. That is the ultimate for a stock block. You do get to a point though where you spend a ton of money an bandaids and machine work that aftermarket can make sense (if your really gonna make big power).

 

[moparcrazy]

is the thought to dowl it to the pan rail? I think anything you do to stabilize the bottom end is good. You could machine studs with a shoulder for the pan rail easy enough instead of using dowls to lock it into place. Either is pretty easy. The thing is locked down pretty well though so I'm not sure movement is even an issue. If I was that worried about it I may be inclined to upgrade the caps also. Chenosworth makes a really nice kit with alum caps and girdle that mate together. That is the ultimate for a stock block. You do get to a point though where you spend a ton of money an bandaids and machine work that aftermarket can make sense (if your really gonna make big power).

Do you have a contact number for Chenoworth !

 

[lewtot184]

i think a lot depends on what a person is going to do with the engine and how much stress the caps will take. light pistons are a big help. i like alum rods because they're great shock absorbers. i prefer steel caps vs the brittle stock caps. i've never used the girdle and probably never will. i guess i'm old fashioned and would prefer to cross bolt a Y block.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Do you have a contact number for Chenoworth !

I don't see much in the net, I believe this is the same setup.

http://bcrproducts.com/caps_and_girdle_system.html

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

i think a lot depends on what a person is going to do with the engine and how much stress the caps will take. light pistons are a big help. i like alum rods because they're great shock absorbers. i prefer steel caps vs the brittle stock caps. i've never used the girdle and probably never will. i guess i'm old fashioned and would prefer to cross bolt a Y block.

I've cross bolted one stock block, I had to machine the ribbing out of the skirting to do it. Felt like I was defeating the purpose. After that I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

This was the last wedge I was able to machine for myself when I was still building engines. I just went with the 2 bolt program caps. We've never ran this one yet, I may girdle it before I do.

 

[moparcrazy]

I don't see much in the net, I believe this is the same setup.

http://bcrproducts.com/caps_and_girdle_system.html

Yup Saw these guys, looks like a Bad *** set up ! im building a RB Scat 500 CI Race motor with Victor Heads,
1.6 Rockers from Harlin-sharp, 16.1 compression Race-Tec pistons with a short Skirt, .790 Solid Roller shooting For 700 HP+ with 150-200 Shot of Nitrous.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Yup Saw these guys, looks like a Bad *** set up ! im building a RB Scat 500 CI Race motor with Victor Heads,
1.6 Rockers from Harlin-sharp, 16.1 compression Race-Tec pistons with a short Skirt, .790 Solid Roller shooting For 700 HP+ with 150-200 Shot of Nitrous.

IMO your in aftermarket block territory, it should make 750-800 on motor pretty easy. I think any stock block is a time bomb for what your doing, even filled with the best parts.

 

[moparcrazy]

IMO your in aftermarket block territory, it should make 750-800 on motor pretty easy. I think any stock block is a time bomb for what your doing, even filled with the best parts.

LMAO Yup your absolutely Correct, my Bud has been building my Engines for a long time, aside from always taking longer then promised, they always seem to stay together, there's four of us mopar Guys here in town who use him and we seem to have great luck with him, he has a 540 RB short block of mine that will most definitely be some sort of a After market block and maybe the 512/13 Indy heads, if i win the Lotto

 

[DLevel]

I'm sure that there are all different opinions on these main girdles effectiveness. I always felt that to rely on the oil pan nuts themselves to tie everything together could be improved on. I started fastening the girdle down with 3/8-16 flat head torx bolts a couple years ago when a customer would bring one in to be installed. It takes a little extra time but it definitely locks everything down to the block. Here is a pic of the last one we did. It only has 3 fasteners down each side instead of our normal 4 because he was nervous about losing an extra pan bolt.

 

[lewtot184]

I've cross bolted one stock block, I had to machine the ribbing out of the skirting to do it. Felt like I was defeating the purpose. After that I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

This was the last wedge I was able to machine for myself when I was still building engines. I just went with the 2 bolt program caps. We've never ran this one yet, I may girdle it before I do.

View attachment 399905

doing the cross bolt/program cap thing was the only way i could keep a 650hp 470 alive. the only indirect experience i have with girdles is leaks (friend used a girdle in a 508).

 

[moparcrazy]

View attachment 399943 I'm sure that there are all different opinions on these main girdles effectiveness. I always felt that to rely on the oil pan nuts themselves to tie everything together could be improved on. I started fastening the girdle down with 3/8-16 flat head torx bolts a couple years ago when a customer would bring one in to be installed. It takes a little extra time but it definitely locks everything down to the block. Here is a pic of the last one we did. It only has 3 fasteners down each side instead of our normal 4 because he was nervous about losing an extra pan bolt.

Looks like a Great idea to me ! understand the extra cost,
what would something like that cost.

 

[DLevel]

Looks like a Great idea to me ! understand the extra cost,
what would something like that cost.

For the job in the pic $500.00 That includes cutting caps if needed, deburring, shimming, installing the torx bolts and line hone to size. I bought a chamfering cutter with the same angle as the underside of the torx bolt to get a nice fit and lock the girdle in place. Once the girdle is shimmed to fit nice on the block, the main caps are torqued down. Then we drill, tap and chamfer each hole and install the torx before moving onto the next hole. Before this job the torx were put in line with the #2&4 mains so there were 8 total fasteners locked into the block. Sorry to say but these have all been street strip guys that don't put a lot of time on their stuff. Wish I had one on a good higher powered bracket car that would come back for freshening every other year so I could see how things were holding up, but that's not the case.

 

[m79ded]

I've cross bolted one stock block, I had to machine the ribbing out of the skirting to do it. Felt like I was defeating the purpose. After that I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

This was the last wedge I was able to machine for myself when I was still building engines. I just went with the 2 bolt program caps. We've never ran this one yet, I may girdle it before I do.

View attachment 399905

That looks very interesting How were the results from those main caps?