Mopar hemi controller advice?

[Tomcat]

I just bought a 6.4 crate hemi, and I've spent quite a lot of time trying to get educated enough to make the right decision for a controller. I see that the Holley and Edelbrock controllers are tunable, but honestly, I'm not good with that sort of thing, and I'm just looking to stay with a stock setup outside of using the Holley long tube headers, so I'm wondering if the Mopar kit is the smart choice for me..... especially given that it will also come with my DBW pedal?? Any reason(s) why I should choose otherwise outside of tunability? I'm a total virgin to this hemi swap tech, but I'm about to learn!

 

[70chall440]

I know you don't think you will tune your engine now but you will most likely want/need to at some point. The Holley system is widely used and known by a lot of tuners thus I'd say it is probably going to be easier to find someone who knows the program. On that point with modern systems a person can write a tune and email it to you and you can install it, not all that hard.

All this said, any of the good programs/tuners self learn so outside of the base tune it will sort itself out over time and with use (same as the Mopar one).

I am using a Holley HP system in my 70 Challenger 440 EFI 6 pack and will be using a Terminator for my 71 Charger 5.7.

 

[Tomcat]

I know you don't think you will tune your engine now but you will most likely want/need to at some point. The Holley system is widely used and known by a lot of tuners thus I'd say it is probably going to be easier to find someone who knows the program. On that point with modern systems a person can write a tune and email it to you and you can install it, not all that hard.

All this said, any of the good programs/tuners self learn so outside of the base tune it will sort itself out over time and with use (same as the Mopar one).

I am using a Holley HP system in my 70 Challenger 440 EFI 6 pack and will be using a Terminator for my 71 Charger 5.7.

That's a good point. I can see where it would be easier to get help with an aftermarket system.

 

[70chall440]

The Holley system is very widely used and there is an abundance of information online (especially YouTube) about using it. When I put the EFI 6 pack onto my Challenger I went with the HP system because I was already using a FAST EZ system on my 73 Cuda. The EZ system is non tunable, you just have to let it do its thing, however the HP system is exceptionally tunable. After watching some YT videos and talking to some people it was awesome to work with/on.

Imagine setting up cold start RPM, fuel and spark with never turning a wrench, same with idle, hot start and WOT. It is not all that difficult and you don't have to become a true "tuner" to get some benefit from it, but as I said if you really don't want to do anything you don't necessarily have to as it will self learn. Now I have to be honest and tell you that you will need a base tune which can be obtained from a wide variety of places to include Holley.

When I got my HP system I knew 0 about tuning, I grew up with Carbs. I bought my system from a guy who initially told me that if I bought from him I would get unlimited support, he would set everything up, blah blah... So I thought this would be perfect for me and placed my order, then I find out that he basically just places the order with Holley and has them drop ship it to me. Once I got it all installed and went to start it I called him to make sure everything was good. He started asking me what tune I had in it and told "the tune you put in it" to which he said he never put anything into the ECU because it shipped straight from Holley... We ended up writing a tune over the phone right then, took like 2 minutes... Long story short I discovered it was not at all magical and completely doable.

There are lots of books and info out there and I know it can be a bit intimidating but it is not that big of a deal.

 

[Tomcat]

The Holley system is very widely used and there is an abundance of information online (especially YouTube) about using it. When I put the EFI 6 pack onto my Challenger I went with the HP system because I was already using a FAST EZ system on my 73 Cuda. The EZ system is non tunable, you just have to let it do its thing, however the HP system is exceptionally tunable. After watching some YT videos and talking to some people it was awesome to work with/on.

Imagine setting up cold start RPM, fuel and spark with never turning a wrench, same with idle, hot start and WOT. It is not all that difficult and you don't have to become a true "tuner" to get some benefit from it, but as I said if you really don't want to do anything you don't necessarily have to as it will self learn. Now I have to be honest and tell you that you will need a base tune which can be obtained from a wide variety of places to include Holley.

When I got my HP system I knew 0 about tuning, I grew up with Carbs. I bought my system from a guy who initially told me that if I bought from him I would get unlimited support, he would set everything up, blah blah... So I thought this would be perfect for me and placed my order, then I find out that he basically just places the order with Holley and has them drop ship it to me. Once I got it all installed and went to start it I called him to make sure everything was good. He started asking me what tune I had in it and told "the tune you put in it" to which he said he never put anything into the ECU because it shipped straight from Holley... We ended up writing a tune over the phone right then, took like 2 minutes... Long story short I discovered it was not at all magical and completely doable.

There are lots of books and info out there and I know it can be a bit intimidating but it is not that big of a deal.

Well i also checked out the Edelbrock, and I see that it does come with a tablet that helps you set a base tune....I did like that, and initially I liked that it would work with a factory alternator, but I now see that my smart money is on the Holley mid mount with the one wire alternator so that's no longer an issue. The only other thing I see is that the Edelbrock has a tach drive wire, and I can't find anything about that with the Holley. I want to keep my stock 71 rally cluster and be able to run the tach, so that matters to me too, but then, the Holley system looks to be nearly $500 cheaper, so there's that too.

 

[70chall440]

The Holley system can be made to work with your stock tach but will might require a MSD adapter which is what I used on my Challenger. Since you are using a G3 Hemi I am not sure though but I would reach out to Holley via email, phone or I believe they have a chat function during the day and ask about it, they are pretty responsive.

I am also using their mid mount system on my 5.7, it is pretty slick.

 

[Tomcat]

The Holley system can be made to work with your stock tach but will might require a MSD adapter which is what I used on my Challenger. Since you are using a G3 Hemi I am not sure though but I would reach out to Holley via email, phone or I believe they have a chat function during the day and ask about it, they are pretty responsive.

I am also using their mid mount system on my 5.7, it is pretty slick.

I do intend on calling Holley to find out about the tach options, as well as what you're getting for the extra $600 of the "premium" mid mount kit vs. the cheaper one. I honestly can't find one word difference in the two descriptions, so I need some clarification on that before I place my order.

 

[Gus chiggins]

I just bought a 6.4 crate hemi, and I've spent quite a lot of time trying to get educated enough to make the right decision for a controller. I see that the Holley and Edelbrock controllers are tunable, but honestly, I'm not good with that sort of thing, and I'm just looking to stay with a stock setup outside of using the Holley long tube headers, so I'm wondering if the Mopar kit is the smart choice for me..... especially given that it will also come with my DBW pedal?? Any reason(s) why I should choose otherwise outside of tunability? I'm a total virgin to this hemi swap tech, but I'm about to learn!

Good luck to you, and no worries they won't send you anywhere special to learn. ( stripes )

 

[Tomcat]

Good luck to you, and no worries they won't send you anywhere special to learn. ( stripes )

Hahaha! I hope I haven’t bitten off more than I can chew. Worst that happens is I turn all the bolts and pay somebody who’s EFI savvy to handle the nerd part! Lol

 

[Gus chiggins]

Hahaha! I hope I haven’t bitten off more than I can chew. Worst that happens is I turn all the bolts and pay somebody who’s EFI savvy to handle the nerd part! Lol

It's like jumping out of an airplane : once you're out the door enjoy the ride.

 

[Tomcat]

It's like jumping out of an airplane : once you're out the door enjoy the ride.

Hell I’m excited just to take on this project.......just hope I live long enough to drive the thing when it reaches launch time! I’m just trying to get the right pieces the first time so I don’t have to repeatedly buy the same things to reach my goal. That fall time from the plane will be decided with dollar bills! Lol

 

[70chall440]

It is not nearly as complicated as it seems, take it one step at a time. Focus on one aspect, research it and arrive at a path, then move on.

I understand not wanting to buy parts several times but with a big build its going to happen to some degree. You do all of your research and then make the purchase only to receive the item and decide you in fact don't like it.

I have done this many times and subsequently have many parts laying around but it is what it is. I'd rather get what I want and if that means buying the wrong part/s from time to time then thats what it means. Point in case, I agonized over a wiring harness for my 71 Charger build, I make a matrix to compare products and eventually settled on a Ron Francis Classis harness. Once I received it and looked at it I immediately regretted the purchase mainly because of the fuse box size and design. I might still use it but I am leaning towards getting something else but we will see.

Oh and I have jumped out of a lot of airplanes (and helicopters) for real and that analogy is pretty spot on.

 

[BB BELLA]

I'd reach out to "modern muscle extreme" and pick some brains there!

 

[Tomcat]

It is not nearly as complicated as it seems, take it one step at a time. Focus on one aspect, research it and arrive at a path, then move on.

I understand not wanting to buy parts several times but with a big build its going to happen to some degree. You do all of your research and then make the purchase only to receive the item and decide you in fact don't like it.

I have done this many times and subsequently have many parts laying around but it is what it is. I'd rather get what I want and if that means buying the wrong part/s from time to time then thats what it means. Point in case, I agonized over a wiring harness for my 71 Charger build, I make a matrix to compare products and eventually settled on a Ron Francis Classis harness. Once I received it and looked at it I immediately regretted the purchase mainly because of the fuse box size and design. I might still use it but I am leaning towards getting something else but we will see.

Oh and I have jumped out of a lot of airplanes (and helicopters) for real and that analogy is pretty spot on.

I agree with you on doing what I have to do to get the result I want. I'm sure I'll end up with some book ends on this journey too. Look

 

[Tomcat]

I'd reach out to "modern muscle extreme" and pick some brains there!

I'm not familiar with them, but I'll look into that. Thanks!

 

[supergluehero]

I'm right there with you. I'm in the middle of installing the mid-mount kit on my 6.4 crate motor. I spent a year putting together my buy list, but 70chall440 is right. At some point you just have to start and pivot as you go.

 

[Tomcat]

I'm right there with you. I'm in the middle of installing the mid-mount kit on my 6.4 crate motor. I spent a year putting together my buy list, but 70chall440 is right. At some point you just have to start and pivot as you go.

View attachment 1441639

I'm for sure going with the Holley setup for that. It's more logical, less invasive, and right in there with the cheapest possible option, so that part is decided. With that said, my biggest concern now is whether the Mopar controller will operate properly with no alternator feedback, due to having the one wire setup from Holley. If that isn't an issue, I'll likely go with the Mopar controller due to the ease of installation and having all the pieces I need to put it running without a bunch of costly add on pieces. I found that MSD makes a clamp on tach feeder that solves the only other thing I was concerned about, so it's all down to whether the alternator wires from the Mopar controller can just be dead ended. Hopefully I'll find an answer for that soon!

 

[furious70]

Having street driven an old tech 383 efi then turbo efi I can say the hardest part is the small details of daily driving. Classic FAST efi circa 1999 still in my fury.
Getting an appropriate feeling accelerator pump action and cold start behavior are by far the toughest on the old systems.
WOT and power modes are a breeze.
When it's time for me to do the next one, how the modern systems self learn those 2 aspects will be key for me.

 

[Tomcat]

Having street driven an old tech 383 efi then turbo efi I can say the hardest part is the small details of daily driving. Classic FAST efi circa 1999 still in my fury.
Getting an appropriate feeling accelerator pump action and cold start behavior are by far the toughest on the old systems.
WOT and power modes are a breeze.
When it's time for me to do the next one, how the modern systems self learn those 2 aspects will be key for me.

That's a great part of why I feel inclined to use the Mopar controller...... it's their system, so it seems logical to bypass the learning woes for me..... I'm not at all tech inclined. Bolts and nuts?...... no problem, but I'm not even very good with carbs, so EFI seems like wizardry to me! Lol

 

[furious70]

One would tend to think the Mopar controller should have better drivability as the trade off for not tunable yes. Usually OEM tunes are very good at low throttle input cruise as well for mpg, some economy cars go into super lean mode. Don't know about the 392's but my hellcat is surprisingly rich at low power cruise and I don't know why, leaving mpg on the table for no reason, even in econ mode