More torqueflite games

[hoover]

I did my first rebuild this past winter, and got a lot of good advice here,so I am hoping for some more..

The shifts were never as firm as I'd hoped but everything seemed to be working well until the last drive.

When accelerating at wide open throttle the shift from 2 to 3 was really soft and seemed to hang on for a long time.

I did a pressure test in the drive position.
Taking pressure readings from the line pressure port and the front servo release port, at 1600 rpm the line pressure was 90 psi and the servo release was 75.
At the same rpm when I pushed the throttle pressure rod back both gauges read 100 psi.
At idle the servo release gauge went to zero when i operated the kick down.

The transmission has the tf2 kit installed so not sure if my pressure is too high to begin with.
I tested the gov pressure earlier this summer when I was trying to sort out the forced kickdown and that was good.

I feel like there is a problem in the front clutch- am i on the right track?
In hindsight i wonder if i screwed up when installing the lip seals.

I appreciate any advice on this!

 

[hoover]

I removed the pan this morning to do an air check.
There is a little metallic stuff in there.

 

[icetech]

I removed the pan this morning to do an air check.
There is a little metallic stuff in there.

View attachment 1911987

Can't help with the shifting.. but when i did my trans and pulled the pan after not many miles i went into panic mode cause of glitter, called Cope and he laughed and told me that's normal from parts just meshing on a new build. not sure how many miles are on yours but mine looked the same or worse. I actually pulled my trans and built it again cause it made me so paranoid, didn't find a single thing wrong.

 

[hoover]

That is what i was hoping to hear!
Might have 500 miles on it

 

[icetech]

That is what i was hoping to hear!
Might have 500 miles on it

mine looked like that at 40.. i have maybe 200-250 on it now without any issues. Someone else will chime in if i'm wrong.. I also see it as, i know how to fix it if it dies anyway.. so no biggy

 

[hoover]

I dropped the valvebody and did an air test on the front and rear clutch apply ports.
The rear makes a solid thud noise when air is applied and when it is released.

The front makes a different sound when air is applied and no noticeable sound when released.
I have a feeling that I will be removing a transmission..
Does that seem accurate?

 

[icetech]

I dropped the valvebody and did an air test on the front and rear clutch apply ports.
The rear makes a solid thud noise when air is applied and when it is released.

The front makes a different sound when air is applied and no noticeable sound when released.
I have a feeling that I will be removing a transmission..
Does that seem accurate?

@dvw would be the man to answer that.. he is the trans man...

 

[dvw]

You are on the right track. If the front clutch application is slow, a sloppy 2/3 shift will occur. Either the fluid volume is delayed by a sticky valve or there is an internal leak. Since the valve body has already been removed, start there first. A call to Trans Go’s tech department is a good idea. Sometimes it takes them time to get back. But they will. They are very knowledgeable. If the valve body checks out then I’d be looking at the reaction shaft rings and front clutch piston seals. It’s not unheard of to catch the piston outer seal lip and tear it.
Doug

 

[F4R/T]

Ive messed up the clutch pack seals before when I did one... I was not using the correct tools to compress everything and chewed the seal up on the piston and didn’t know it... it’s was my 3 flite rebuild so I guess I got cocky ..
Edit
This auto fill and correct is getting old

 

[hoover]

Thanks!

 

[dvw]

The outer front seal is tricky. It’s hidden and not accessible with any tool. Gentle compression of the piston using Vaseline and 3 C clamps or C clamp vice grips is the key. A turn at a time going around in rotation will seat it. The thinner late model seal is easier and will fit either piston.
Doug

 

[hoover]

The outer seal is intact.
The inner might have been installed backwards.
Had 2 burned steels , luckily I have parts.

Going to do more inspecting in the morning.

I will call transgo tomorrow and see what they say.

I am sure there was an error on my part.

 

[hoover]

The clearance was on the high side of the tolerance listed in the service manual- actually a few thousandths over.
I found a snap ring that brings it to .085" right in the middle of the range.
Were there 2 different inner lip seals?
I have a couple of seals that will fit the hub but one has a much larger lip.

 

[dvw]

The outer seal is intact.
The inner might have been installed backwards.
Had 2 burned steels , luckily I have parts.

Going to do more inspecting in the morning.

I will call transgo tomorrow and see what they say.

I am sure there was an error on my part.

The thick seal fits an early 62-71 piston. The thin seal is 72 and up. Air check it on the bench with the pump face down and just the forward drum installed on it. For front clutch clearance in HP use .015" x the number of frictions is a good number. How do the sides of the reaction shaft rings look? If they're worn into an L shape in cross section the support is junk. Does the KD servo blow fluid out the trapizoid shaped hole next the the feed port when air checked? If so check the servo rings and bore.
Doug

 

[hoover]

The rings are still square in profile.
There is some air coming from where the reaction shaft support rides in the hub of the drum. Indicated by red dots in picture.

I left the springs out for the air test. The piston goes up and down when air is applied.
There isn't air coming from the trapezoid hole indicated in the other picture if that's what you mean

 

[dvw]

The hole I'm referring to is the servo release hole in the case next to the frt servo apply feed hole.
Doug

 

[hoover]

It sure does blow fluid out of that one!

 

[hoover]

The bore looks ok.
The sealing rings are intact. The bigger ones are metal.
The small one is plasticy

 

[dvw]

We had this issue recently. Messed up the KD band and the forward clutch. Reseal the servo. May need to be honed. It'll leak a little, very little when correct.
Doug

 

[hoover]

I put it back together and now it seems better..
I put a piece of paper towel in that port and it doesn't blow out.