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SPINDLE NUT AND RETAINER

Frankb

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Do all spindle nuts require a retainer? I have aftermarket spindles and brakes on this car. Did about 20 years ago. I don't remember when I took this apart if there was a retainer. The castle nut is what came off for sure though. The retainer in the pic is from the local O'rileys. Is it better to get a thinner spindle nut and use a retainer or the nut I have?

RETAINER 1.jpg RETAINER 2.jpg
 
I don't think you would want a castle nut on a spindle. It isn't like you are torquing down a ball joint and can go a bit farther to get the cotter pin through. Very little leeway when tightening down a spindle nut. Every one that I have had has always used thinner nut and retainer.
 
With a thinner spindle nut that allows the use of the retainer you can then use that to get the proper .000"-.003" endplay by tightening the nut to specs then backing the nut off one slot (with retainer in place) before installing the cotter pin.
 
You can delete the retainer with that castle nut as long as the cotter pin will be in the grooves of the castle and keep it from turning. That’s is what it’s all about here.

Some brand X cars use a castle nut on the spindle mid 70’s. Less parts.
 
I don't think you would want a castle nut on a spindle. It isn't like you are torquing down a ball joint and can go a bit farther to get the cotter pin through. Very little leeway when tightening down a spindle nut. Every one that I have had has always used thinner nut and retainer.
Toss the retainer. You don't need it.
 
You can get a finer adjustment with the two piece setup. That is the reason for it. If you can get it adjusted where you want it, with a castle nut, then go for it. You also want to make sure it doesn't rub on the cap.
 
The factory used the nut and adjustable retainer for a reason. "Fine tuning" the adjustment.... Why re-engineer what has worked for 50+ years?
 
Toss the retainer. You don't need it.
I will politely disagree with that statement. Imo there is no possible way that every single time you properly tighten down a castle nut on a spindle the cotter pin hole will line up.
 
I just redid the hub seals, re-pack the bearings and brakes on my car trailer and it has castle nuts, I could not get the end play consistent on all 4 hubs due to the wider spacing of the slots in the castle nuts.
 
Thanks for your input. I was able to find a set of spindle nuts at a local mom & pop parts store that fit these spindles (spindles are not stock) and the retainers I already had. I did install the castellated nuts just to measure the difference. Certainly can get closer to (at least in my case) spec with the standard spindle nut and retainer.
Frank
 
I will politely disagree with that statement. Imo there is no possible way that every single time you properly tighten down a castle nut on a spindle the cotter pin hole will line up.
I was an auto mechanic for over 20 years. The mid 70's through the early 90's and I can guarantee you that you don't need that retainer. There were hundreds of millions of rear wheel drive cars on the road in the mid 70's that didn't have a retainer on the castle nut on the spindle. Throw the damn thing in the trash and just use the cotter key. If you know what your doing one of those holes will line up close enough to get the cotter pin in it. Did you ever see a tie rod end or ball joint with a retainer on the castle nut? Hell no you didn't because they are not needed.
 
I have to disagree with you wvmarv...it's not the fact of getting the cotter pin through the castle nut, it's getting the proper pre-load on the bearings, and THAT is where having the retainer really helps. Can you slap things together and call it good enough...yup sure can, but will the bearings be to tight or to loose...most likely. Will the same bearings last long enough for the average UN-mechaically incline owner to use the vehicle and eventually toss it in 5-7 years for another one,...probably will, but still doesn't mean it was set up properly.

But we as somewhat mechanically inclined individuals tend to want to do things properly and have the olds parts on our vehicles last as long as possible, which means setting things up properly for the longest possible life expectancy out of the hardware and parts. ;)
 
The factory used the nut and adjustable retainer for a reason. "Fine tuning" the adjustment.... Why re-engineer what has worked for 50+ years?

I wholeheartedly agree.... but the most important consideration is getting the bearing adjusted correctly using the FSM procedure. Yes the retainer allows for proper bearing adjustment in spite of what others state why you don't need it. Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON
 
Toss the retainer. You don't need it.
I have to disagree, you do need it. Proper end play is .000 to .003. When installed properly the retainer helps to hold the clearance, without the retainer the nut will back off increasing the clearance and shortening the bearing life or worse bearing failure and damage or injury.
 
Way back in the day I had an Auto Shop Instructor who would surface grind a bit off the back surface of the castellated spindle nut on his GM whatever to get his wheel bearing adjustment just so, he admitted Chrysler had a better design.
 
Ask yourself this question;
If you set the endplay perfectly today,I mean bang-on perfect; how long can you expect it to stay perfect, and how can you know...... because it could be twenty years from now, before you check it again, and I can guarantee two things; 1) it will not be perfect any more, and 2) neither you nor the bearing will ever have known the difference.

Use it if you want, throw it away if the want, it makes no difference.
How can I say that with such confidence?
Cuz I run my KH rotors loose enough to knock the pads back, and tighten them up a smidge' oh, about every 5 years, or so,lol.
They're tapered bearings, they don't care You'll do more damage if too tight, than if really loose.
The reason the spec is .003 to .007 is twofold; If you set them to .003, chances are new ones will be closer to .007 in a couple of thousand miles. So if you take it back to your mechanic, cuz you think they're loose; guess what... if they're still less than .007, then he has every right to bill you for the adjustment. And secondly, the bearings actually like to be loose., and third; the spec gives you a big fat window to hit during the adjustment.
If I told you were I have been running mine, since the 70s, you'd probably feint.
While I'm not particularly fond of wvmarv's delivery, I have to agree with him. They're wheel bearings, not rod bearings.
 
Ask yourself this question;
If you set the endplay perfectly today,I mean bang-on perfect; how long can you expect it to stay perfect, and how can you know...... because it could be twenty years from now, before you check it again, and I can guarantee two things; 1) it will not be perfect any more, and 2) neither you nor the bearing will ever have known the difference.

Use it if you want, throw it away if the want, it makes no difference.
How can I say that with such confidence?
Cuz I run my KH rotors loose enough to knock the pads back, and tighten them up a smidge' oh, about every 5 years, or so,lol.
They're tapered bearings, they don't care You'll do more damage if too tight, than if really loose.
The reason the spec is .003 to .007 is twofold; If you set them to .003, chances are new ones will be closer to .007 in a couple of thousand miles. So if you take it back to your mechanic, cuz you think they're loose; guess what... if they're still less than .007, then he has every right to bill you for the adjustment. And secondly, the bearings actually like to be loose., and third; the spec gives you a big fat window to hit during the adjustment.
If I told you were I have been running mine, since the 70s, you'd probably feint.
While I'm not particularly fond of wvmarv's delivery, I have to agree with him. They're wheel bearings, not rod bearings.
Once again I will disagree. I think it was Harley Earl who said "we don't install parts on cars that are not needed. Parts that are not installed don't break or cost anything". If the manufacturer installed it, it is needed.
 
Also that is why in the FSM (Factory Service Manual) it has a time frame set out to check your bearings...it's there for a reason to help keep your parts working properly for the longest amount of time. And if you had to rely on the large adjustments of a castle nut it is unlikely that you'd be able to get your bearings back into spec without the small multi slot retainer.
 
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