Haggerty article about waning collector car values.
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A friend of mine recently bought a very nice 413 Max Wedge 1962 Dart clone (pictures on 1962 - 1965 forum). The car started out as a solid California body, treated to a rotisserie restoration. '62 Maxie top end on a 440 block, 4-speed, and Dana 60 with 4.10 gears. New interior, stainless Maxie exhaust. He priced out collector car insurance. Hagerty said they would insure it for $16,000 value. He went elsewhere.
I think haggerty is a little full of it. Personal opinion is the international market will keep this hobby alive and kicking for a long time. The market has always gone up and down depending on what’s popular but some of the shows in places like japan and Sweden are incredible. Now that the world is after the American classics, demand will be high for a while.
I may not be here in 20 years... but between the forced phasing out of gas, and if insurance companies write a policy... maybe only a certain few will be able to afford it.
The Porsche guys over on BAT will be fine.
The Porsche guys over on BAT will be fine.
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Never was in this for the $$$, don't really care
what the "market" is on them....
Jimmer
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Although I agree about not being in it for the money.
The problem would be replacement value or fixing the car should it get wrecked.
70chall440
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I think it is inevitable to a point especially with the push towards EV, escalating fuel prices, a lack of new people excited by them, insurance companies starting to push back and worse of all is the EPA's current aggressive push against modified vehicles. If you cannot enjoy the car then less and less people are going to want them. On top of this less and less people understand them or know how to work on them.
Sure there will always be someone who is interested in these cars but that population is not growing, it is declining whether we like it or not. Part of this problem lies at our (the car hobby) own feet, what started as a general hobby got turned into a revenue stream with way too many of the cars well out of reach of interested buyers. I keep seeing rusty rollers being advertised for $15K or more and way too many people defending those prices. The prices are high because the hobby keeps them high and this in turn keeps many potentially new enthusiasts out of the hobby. Without new blood the hobby will die.
Sure there will always be someone who is interested in these cars but that population is not growing, it is declining whether we like it or not. Part of this problem lies at our (the car hobby) own feet, what started as a general hobby got turned into a revenue stream with way too many of the cars well out of reach of interested buyers. I keep seeing rusty rollers being advertised for $15K or more and way too many people defending those prices. The prices are high because the hobby keeps them high and this in turn keeps many potentially new enthusiasts out of the hobby. Without new blood the hobby will die.
70chall440
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I completely agree that the auctions have not done the hobby any good overall. It created a collector's market that had a significant trickle down effect and help drive prices up.
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That's what insurance is for...
Jimmer
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If the car is worth more then the insurance is willing to offer it would be a problem if totaled .
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Let's address the elephant in the room: baby boomers.
That's not to say focuses in collecting won't inevitably shift. Younger collectors dig muscle cars, but they also love 1980s German sedans and 1990s Japanese coupes. What happens when the people for whom muscle cars represent the red-hot center of their passion gradually age out of the market? Prewar cars may hold some of the answers we seek. If conventional wisdom held true, that later generations won't be interested in the cars of their fathers, then the prewar market must be rock bottom, right?
The above is a reoccurring theme.
But discounting the Saudi, an anonymous billionaire and the Hollywood buyer of "high end" cars, I see one thing that is never talked about in these articles.
There is a basic difference between your grandfather's Model A, a 32 Ford Coupe and a 1969 car.
The 1970 car is basically a "modern car" without all the bells and whistles.
ABS brakes, airbags, cruise control, electric windows, computers, doors that lock when you don't tell them too and the all important cup holders.
As long as gas is available, one can drive a 1972 car every day on the freeway.
Only two things will kill a Dodge Dart.
Rust and wreck.
So, I think there will always be a market for the Everyman car.
That "289 Mustang" even.
Of course, some people ARE looking for museum pieces.
That's not to say focuses in collecting won't inevitably shift. Younger collectors dig muscle cars, but they also love 1980s German sedans and 1990s Japanese coupes. What happens when the people for whom muscle cars represent the red-hot center of their passion gradually age out of the market? Prewar cars may hold some of the answers we seek. If conventional wisdom held true, that later generations won't be interested in the cars of their fathers, then the prewar market must be rock bottom, right?
The above is a reoccurring theme.
But discounting the Saudi, an anonymous billionaire and the Hollywood buyer of "high end" cars, I see one thing that is never talked about in these articles.
There is a basic difference between your grandfather's Model A, a 32 Ford Coupe and a 1969 car.
The 1970 car is basically a "modern car" without all the bells and whistles.
ABS brakes, airbags, cruise control, electric windows, computers, doors that lock when you don't tell them too and the all important cup holders.
As long as gas is available, one can drive a 1972 car every day on the freeway.
Only two things will kill a Dodge Dart.
Rust and wreck.
So, I think there will always be a market for the Everyman car.
That "289 Mustang" even.
Of course, some people ARE looking for museum pieces.
I think the value of classic cars will hold up.
What will change is the year range as each generation gets their kids raised and through college ect.
To me this will go on until you hit this generation of kids, most of them could care less about cars.
What will change is the year range as each generation gets their kids raised and through college ect.
To me this will go on until you hit this generation of kids, most of them could care less about cars.
Outlawd
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For what time I have left on earth I would be just fine with a big muscle car market crash! I have had many mopars and still have a few and wouldn't mind buying more if they were cheaper....I'd like to see a second gen charger street quality drivable sell for 8000.00 or a nice bee for the same. I really don't care if that means my cars I have now are also worth less, I enjoy them for what they are not what they are worth. Life's short, fill up them toy boxes!!
Outlawd
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Holy crap am I glad I'm not growing up in that generation, I'd rather be old now and grew up racing cars than young now and grow up not even wanting a drivers license!!
cant go by Haggerty, they go by the auction market tracking those sales which has been in decline due to Covid.
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That's an incorrect assumption, one easily disspelled:
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/About-our-prices
Nope, I’ve been with Haggerty for 15 years. Last two cars I sold they asked about the sale. They were beginning to track sales of their customers to build a data base. They also do some random sampling of dealer sales. Of course the data is only good depending on the actual info given. I would imagine people would be leery of giving info on a private sale.
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