Looking for advice on refreshing an RV 440

Hey all, long time listener first time caller here.

I recently picked up a '77 440 motor and a 727 both out of a motor home. Seller said it had around 60k miles on it. It's a strong runner, cranks evenly, no abnormal noises etc, and I have yet to find any sign of internal damage. Poked my bore scope in all 8 cylinders and they all look beautiful, however I see it's got the low compression pistons in it. Doing some reading around here and other forums, it looks like the overall lack of compression is going to be my limiting factor. I'd like to tune this engine up a little (new carb, intake, headers, etc) But I'm not sure how far in I should go.

This engine/tranny combo is going in my '87 D150. Originally had a 360/727 but It was a complete dog, well over 250k bone stock and was starting to make some scary noises lol. I'm not trying to make crazy power or anything with the 440. Just trying to revamp this motor and have a cool sporty little truck to cruise in (Yes, I know it's not a B body but this forum seems much more active than the others I've been on haha).

What I'd like to know is if I'm wasting my time tuning up this "dump truck motor?" Are the "bolt on" upgrades going to be worthwhile without doing something to bump up my compression? I've also had a buddy suggest putting a different cam in it (such as a comp 969-4565 which is advertised to work with lower compression ratios and get a little more torque out of it) but I'd like to get opinions from some of you guys that have worked on a bunch of these engines. Like I said I'm just looking for something sporty for cruising that can spin the tires here and there.

Thanks for any suggestions! I look forward to sharing the build here.

This pretty much sums it up:

My 76 440 motor home engine has been a nice surprise for me.
Just bolt ons, heads are uncut 452s bottom end is standard everything and untouched. I have no idea what the compression is but I can buy fuel any place without fear of detonation.lol

Ive tried some different carbs but a big block thermoquad on a edelbrock preformer seems to work best with the rest of my add ons.
A comp XE 262 with crane springs that are close to the 440 mag springs on specs.
Fast curve on the distributor with a 9.5 plate in it and 16 degrees at idle
Schumacher Try y headers , 11" converter and 3:23 sure grip with 26 dia." rear rubber.
The converter, cam , carb and distributor all seem to hit the start of the power at the same time.
The old gal will fry the tires and run 120
I'm just fine with 7.5.1 compression.

This should answer 99% of your questions.

Dyno testing a stock(?) 1972 440

My daughters boyfriend runs a 76 camper special 7500 at the track with the original 440 bottom end. Edel Estreet heads and a. 509 cam. 12.70s fairly consistent and 11.90s on juice.
My old back up 440 was the same pistons with ported 906s, ran 12.0s in a full dress 64 dodge.
If someone says a smog 440 bottom end can't run, they know not of what they speak about.

Compression is your friend. It adds power everywhere. Mill the heads. I have milled BB heads 0.125", zero problems. You would also need to mill the intake faces as well.

A whiplash cam will yield good power.

But:
1. They idle really rough and are tricky to tune.
2. Not particularly easy on the valve train either.

Good evening everyone.

Thanks for all your inputs! I think I've settled on my plan for this build. Bottom end and heads are going to stay stock, I'm going to go thru the motor and re gasket it, and while I'm in there also install new carb, intake, headers, cam/lifters and anything else I may find damaged or worn.

I've already started taking this motor apart. Up until what I found tonight, everything has looked extremely clean. Like I said in my first post all cylinders look great! Valvetrain is very clean too. Removed valley pan and there's no sign of abnormal wear on the cam lobes. Removed the rocker shafts and all rocker arms look just fine. Push rods look nice too, no signs of wear or lack of oil. All lifters and bores look great too, all lifters came out just fine and were stiff prior to removal. No pitting or rust on the bottoms of them.

Tonight I got the cam out (after doing a bunch of research because I've heard they can be a bear on these big blocks). Sure enough, it fought at first but once I got it to move it came right out. Cam looks perfect, aside from the dowel pin being broken (which I am scratching my head about, no, its not in the cam gear). No abnormal wear that I can see on the bearing surfaces or lobes. However, bearings 1 and 2 are trashed. (I'll upload some pictures to show you). Bearing 1 has a big chunk missing right at the bottom. You can see the block surface. Bearing 2 is missing a chunk too but it's not as deep. There are some small marks on the bearings from me removing the cam but you can't feel them with your finger. I'm not sure if the marks are my doing or not. I looked around for little bits of bearing but I couldn't see any.

I'm wondering what I can do about these cam bearings. What would you do? I was already planning on replacing my cam. Can I just replace the two damaged bearings or do I need to replace the set? Thanks in advance!

Also an interesting side note for y'all while I am still thinking about it. We had a dodge cummins pickup come into the shop at work a couple of years ago. Customer was complaining of a ticking noise, turned out to be hydraulic lifter failure, but anyway - while my buddy who was working on the truck was in there, he found a couple of the cam bearings were missing chunks (just like my big block but maybe a little bigger). Cam bearings were not replaced and the truck is still running just fine, it still comes in for oil changes every now and then .

I don’t think 5.9 or 6.7 Cummins got hydraulic lifters until 2025.
Looks like they guy installing the factory cam got a little sloppy. I would replace the set of them. Might be a chore to bring it to a shop with cam bearing install tool. But they are not out of reach price wise either if you choose to diy them.

68-500 said:

I don’t think 5.9 or 6.7 Cummins got hydraulic lifters until 2025.
Looks like they guy installing the factory cam got a little sloppy. I would replace the set of them. Might be a chore to bring it to a shop with cam bearing install tool. But they are not out of reach price wise either if you choose to diy them.

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The 6.7 got them in '19 I believe. They have been a problem child for us. They have little "ears" designed to hold them in place in the lifter bores. The ears on the lifter wear out the bore if not lubricated properly and they will rock from side to side. We have replaced 3 engines for this under warranty at the dealer now. But anyway...

I'm looking at cam bearings and tools now. Both look pretty affordable. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet, I have never replaced them before!

Factory cam bearings flaking and chunking is not uncommon. They seem pretty fragile. But if it's all apart maybe get the block hot tanked and new bearings installed at the machine shop

Well, this afternoon I finally had some time to go mess with the 440. Knocked out all my cam bearings and cleaned up the bores as best I could. Now to install the bearings.

Started in the back, bearing 5 went in nicely and the cam sits real nice in it. Put in bearing 4 and found its kind of tight, added some more oil to the cam and tried again, it still won't go in. I hit up the store and grabbed some very fine emery cloth. Hopefully one night this week I'll have time to polish up bearing 4 and try again.

In the mean time, my cam and lifters have arrived. I decided to go with the Edelbrock perfomer cam kit 2192 (which is a comp cam and lifter kit in an Eddy box). Edelbrock states in their instructions that no warranty is granted on this stuff if I don't install their valve springs which is OK with me since I was already thinking about replacing them. While I was out there this afternoon I noticed something interesting though. I'll post some pictures to go with my description for you all too.

Some of the valve springs on these heads appear to be dual spring. Look at the photos, the valves with a flat retainer have one coil underneath. The valves with a rounded retainer have a single coil and then what appears to be a secondary coil inside that. On the right bank only the exhaust valves have the rounded retainers. On the left bank they are mixed. I'm curious as to why they are like this? Between this and the buggered cam bearings I'm beginning to wonder if this engine hasn't been apart before. There's no sign of them causing any problems, I just find it strange that there is no rhyme or reason as to why they are installed like this.

Has anyone here seen this before? Please let me know. I hadn't even thought of it before but I think I'll need to replace the retainers when I do my valve springs.


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fine69 said:

This pretty much sums it up:

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I'd like to find a complete 383 Magnum for $500. Never seen one for sale in the NW for that price. At least not in the last 5 years.

Yup someone mixed up 2 valves. But in the end they're crappy springs, retainers and keepers.

Good to know. I was scratching my head there for a minute trying to figure out the sense behind it. Oh well, I guess a few more new parts never hurt anyone! lol

Motor home would have valve spring rotaters on the exhaust valves Those are the thick looking retainers. You’ll need the proper springs and correct retainers that fit the new springs.
Doug

Fwiw, I prefer to eliminate the rotators.

On any heads I’ve seen with them, when the factory used rotators, the ex valves had two grooves.
If you simply swap to std retainers, the spring installed height can change……. So it needs to be checked.
(On a SB, the installed height ends up short enough to where the valves get swapped for 4 groove versions to get the installed heights close between in & ex)