1966 Charger Headlight Motor Disassembly Help

[hgufrin]

Hi -

My headlight motors do not work as they should. The motor will only rotate in one-direction. So I am trying to take apart and see what the problem is.

Step 1 - I melted/removed the hard rubber adhesive that holds the two halves of motor housing together.
Step 2 - I removed the "snap-ring" if that is what you call it. With a little twist the two halves come apart (see Pic #1 and Pic #4)
Step 3 - In Pic #2, this part was seized so I removed, cleaned-up, and now it rotates as it should
Step 4- In Pic #3, i removed the two long bolts (that I thought was holding internals in housing)

Question - how do I remove the windings, axle, commutator out of here? If I gently pull on the axle it will not come out. Do i need to cut the two 12v black wires?

Sure would appreciate your input.

Merry Christmas.

 

[pnora]

Looks like you need to un-solder and remove the brush plate.

 

[hgufrin]

Thanks for the help. Nothing looked burned broken. Are windings something that go bad? Or break internally? All solder connections appeared really good. Any tips on what to check for before i decide to send it out to someone to just re-wind everything? Appreciate any thoughts

 

[hgufrin]

sorry last thought… there doesnt appear to be any magnets in here? Is it because it needs 12v to be magnetized?

 

[twecomm]

Before you disassembled the motor, did you try using a stiff 12 volt source such as car battery or battery charger to operate the motor on the bench ?
These motors draw quite a bit of current, many amps. Motor case is ground (-), + would go to one or the other leads, as there is one for each rotation direction. The halves of the motor must be together to properly align the armature, otherwise the commutator will not be properly aligned and centered with the brushes and may make not contact the brushes properly and won't work.
It's been my experience that the part with the blue O ring binds up in the bushing it passes thru in the front of the housing creating very slow movement and causes the motor to draws more current than normal. I have used emery cloth to slightly reduce the OD just enough so that part rotates freely in the bushing in the housing. But you have mentioned you figured that out.
Did you measure the resistance of leads to case ground ? In a working motor, the measured resistance of the windings you will find is not the same and is slightly different, that's normal. Inside my motors, there is a small whitish package that's a thermal protector that will go open in the electrical path if motor would get stalled and heats up to prevent cooking the windings. I don't see that I your pictures.. And yes, needs 12 volts to generate the magnetic field.

 

[hgufrin]

Twecommm-

Yes i did test it on a bench and it would only run in the “opening” direction. When i tried the other lead, “closing” direction, it just locks up.

After inspecting and cleaning, i then tried to run it with top half of the case off, and it would run in both directions but would lock up, exactly like you said, armature not aligned.

So i will try to put it back together like you said, and then bench test it. problem is… How? Upon looking at it.. it appears as though the shaft,axle,armature will just spin freely inside the 6 weights, planetary gear looking thing and white bowl? Is this picture the correct order of assembly? Howis it possible the shaft is just not spinning freely inside to there?

 

[hgufrin]

What prevents shaft from just spinning inside all the other parts?

 

[RemCharger]

Before you disassembled the motor, did you try using a stiff 12 volt source such as car battery or battery charger to operate the motor on the bench ?
These motors draw quite a bit of current, many amps. Motor case is ground (-), + would go to one or the other leads, as there is one for each rotation direction. The halves of the motor must be together to properly align the armature, otherwise the commutator will not be properly aligned and centered with the brushes and may make not contact the brushes properly and won't work.
It's been my experience that the part with the blue O ring binds up in the bushing it passes thru in the front of the housing creating very slow movement and causes the motor to draws more current than normal. I have used emery cloth to slightly reduce the OD just enough so that part rotates freely in the bushing in the housing. But you have mentioned you figured that out.
Did you measure the resistance of leads to case ground ? In a working motor, the measured resistance of the windings you will find is not the same and is slightly different, that's normal. Inside my motors, there is a small whitish package that's a thermal protector that will go open in the electrical path if motor would get stalled and heats up to prevent cooking the windings. I don't see that I your pictures.. And yes, needs 12 volts to generate the magnetic field.

I haven't been in one of these motors in years, but my first thought was wheres the thermal breaker. Seems like someone has been in there. What's that black wire go to on the other side of the brush plate

 

[RemCharger]

What prevents shaft from just spinning inside all the other parts?

View attachment 1967726

Those planetarys act as a clutch I believe.

 

[twecomm]

It's been a while since I have work on one of these as well... The planetary is the piece with 3 discs which is what does the gear reduction of motor RPM's and resulting output RPM's of the output shaft. All the pieces being sandwiched together act like a clutch. Again, the proper mechanical function depends on the unit being FULLY assembled with all the various internal components being somewhat compressed on the armature shaft, which is a bit sprig loaded in unto the base of the rear housing. When putting it together, you can feel that compression required just before the last bit of distance of the housing halves bottoming out on each other. Looking at the plastic pieces, you can see why it's NOT a good idea to try and manually force rotation of the headlamp buckets as it can strip the un- obtainable plastic pieces.
Is the thermal circuit breaker package I described visible anywhere ? If not, someone has been inside these motors before and eliminated it which is not a good idea.

 

[hgufrin]

I haven't been in one of these motors in years, but my first thought was wheres the thermal breaker. Seems like someone has been in there. What's that black wire go to on the other side of the brush plate

The black wire is connected to stator windings one one side and the other side of black wire is connected to a brush assembly.

Regarding the last two pics below… are they the “thermal breaker” you asked about? The look like points in an ignition distributor.

 

[hgufrin]

It's been a while since I have work on one of these as well... The planetary is the piece with 3 discs which is what does the gear reduction of motor RPM's and resulting output RPM's of the output shaft. All the pieces being sandwiched together act like a clutch. Again, the proper mechanical function depends on the unit being FULLY assembled with all the various internal components being somewhat compressed on the armature shaft, which is a bit sprig loaded in unto the base of the rear housing. When putting it together, you can feel that compression required just before the last bit of distance of the housing halves bottoming out on each other. Looking at the plastic pieces, you can see why it's NOT a good idea to try and manually force rotation of the headlamp buckets as it can strip the un- obtainable plastic pieces.
Is the thermal circuit breaker package I described visible anywhere ? If not, someone has been inside these motors before and eliminated it which is not a good idea.

Thanks for explanation. It helps. This is all that was inside bottom half. I dont know what thermal breaker is.
Thanks again im learning a lot.

 

[pnora]

That is the thermal breaker. It opens for one direction and has to stay closed for the other direction.

 

[twecomm]

Your motor looks to be somewhat different. I just don't remember the contacts you show under the brush plate. The thermal protector I referred to is a small thing about 3/4" x 1/2" x 1/8" thick and was wrapped in a whiteish insulation material.

 

[VANDAN]

You'll get all the answers, and help you need from Topher, also known as the "Headlight Motor Man"...

 

[RemCharger]

Thanks for explanation. It helps. This is all that was inside bottom half. I dont know what thermal breaker is.
Thanks again im learning a lot.

View attachment 1967861

The motors run continuously until BOTH side limit switches are triggered. So, when one side stops first, the breaker opens and allows the other side to catch up. The heat opens the bi metal spring , much like a turn signal relay. Power window motors have the same protection.

 

[dadsbee]

Late now.. or maybe not... I would have sent them to @Topher