1977 Cordoba 400 Edelbrock 4brl 1906 - LB delete

[Diesel01]

9077s is a 1977 high performance 400 TQ it should have 4098 primary jets, 5143 secondary jets, and 2159 rods (.070 x .062 x .040) should work perfect if in good shape. Not sure why you would swap out an 850 cfm carb for a 650 cfm carb. the TQ is one of the sweetest carbs ever made. Bowl problems are rarely encountered and easily fixed unless someone has messed up the primary jet inserts.

I didn't do this. The previous owner installed the Edelbrock. I have never heard an issue with the Thermo-quad other than the resin body can crack or warp. I agree I like the TQ too. I had it on my 76 Cordoba with Lean Burn and never a problem.

It looks like my 1906 is stock with orange springs and 70-37 rods. I am assuming since it has default rods and springs that the jets are too.

The rods look clean no deposits. This thing looks brand spanking new.

Is there anyone from Edelbrock on here that can tell me what number to calibrate this to for my 400 meaning springs, rod and jets from default?

 

[Diesel01]

9077s is a 1977 high performance 400 TQ it should have 4098 primary jets, 5143 secondary jets, and 2159 rods (.070 x .062 x .040) should work perfect if in good shape. Not sure why you would swap out an 850 cfm carb for a 650 cfm carb. the TQ is one of the sweetest carbs ever made. Bowl problems are rarely encountered and easily fixed unless someone has messed up the primary jet inserts.

What is the other TQ I saw in the manual available in 77 for the 400, 9103S?

Here is a nice site on the Thermo-Quad

http://www.retrorarities.com/images/CarterThermoquadInformation.pdf

 

[Geoff 2]

I agree that the TQ is a great carb. I use them all the time on engines I build. But the Edel AFB/AVS are also great carbs. Since you already have one, it should be able to be tuned to work.

Did you bother to read post #19????

You need to go back to basics, outlined in post #19. One thing I will add that I did not include in post #19. The seats for the needles have a washer under them. If the washer is missing, it can cause flooding. So make sure [a] the washer is there the seat is tight.

Rick, black exhaust is NOT a met rod problem. Primary jets that are several sizes larger than standard could cause the problem, but it would be most unlikely that anybody would do this with type of carb.

 

[Geoff 2]

M. rod calibration.
Every engine is different. Start with the factory calibration.
Piston step up spring calibration: loosen piston covers, swivel slightly, & tighten so that piston is captured but can be partially seen.

Engine idling, in gear, if auto. Pistons should be down, not moving. If that is the case, job done.
If piston moves, you need weaker springs. Job is done when pistons stay down at idle.

 

[Diesel01]

I agree that the TQ is a great carb. I use them all the time on engines I build. But the Edel AFB/AVS are also great carbs. Since you already have one, it should be able to be tuned to work.

Did you bother to read post #19????

You need to go back to basics, outlined in post #19. One thing I will add that I did not include in post #19. The seats for the needles have a washer under them. If the washer is missing, it can cause flooding. So make sure [a] the washer is there the seat is tight.

Rick, black exhaust is NOT a met rod problem. Primary jets that are several sizes larger than standard could cause the problem, but it would be most unlikely that anybody would do this with type of carb.

Yes. I read the post but I wanted to do something easy to see if they touched the calibration and changed the springs/rods/jets. I really dread removing the carb and opening it up. Knowing my luck I will damage the gasket.

It has only partially flooded out twice. It is not a constant thing. If the float level was wrong, I would think it would flood constantly and not rev up. It revs up nice and 4 barrels open nice as well.

 

[Geoff 2]

If it flooded twice, that is twice too many times. You do NOT have to remove the carb!!!
Only remove the air horn, nothing else. A few screws & circlips. Put a cloth over the carb opening when removing/fitting circlips.

 

[Geoff 2]

Should have added: you need to remove m/rods & springs. When re-fitting, jiggle into place, do not force them into the jets.

Another possibility is a leaking fuel filter that is letting debris get into the carb. I believe some filters have a bypass mechanism such that if they are blocked with dirt, they let some fuel through...unfiltered.

 

[Diesel01]

M. rod calibration.
Every engine is different. Start with the factory calibration.
Piston step up spring calibration: loosen piston covers, swivel slightly, & tighten so that piston is captured but can be partially seen.

Engine idling, in gear, if auto. Pistons should be down, not moving. If that is the case, job done.
If piston moves, you need weaker springs. Job is done when pistons stay down at idle.

What exactly is the "airhorn"? Is that the top with 6 or 8 torx?

 

[66fs]

What exactly is the "airhorn"? Is that the top with 6 or 8 torx?

Yes.

 

[66fs]

What is the other TQ I saw in the manual available in 77 for the 400, 9103S?

Here is a nice site on the Thermo-Quad

http://www.retrorarities.com/images/CarterThermoquadInformation.pdf

From what I could find for the 400 high performance in 1977 the 9102s and 9103s. But honestly any TQ for a 400 or 440 engine will do. Is your 400 the high performance engine? I prefer the earlier big block TQ, from 1972-1975, with the ported vacuum tap for the distributor vacuum advance.

 

[Geoff 2]

TQs are great carbs. Best 4bbl made. But it is obvious you do not have a lot of experience with carbs & trying to set up a TQ would not be a good idea. With the Edel, you have a manual with jetting procedure, & all the for a novice to get the carb running. So I would persevere with the AVS.
They are a simple design, easy to work on.

 

[Diesel01]

TQs are great carbs. Best 4bbl made. But it is obvious you do not have a lot of experience with carbs & trying to set up a TQ would not be a good idea. With the Edel, you have a manual with jetting procedure, & all the for a novice to get the carb running. So I would persevere with the AVS.
They are a simple design, easy to work on.

First off GEOFF 2, dont be rude! I don't have a TQ. Like I said at the beginning of this post and at least a couple more times, I got the car with this Edelbrock. I don't have a TQ. I know how carbs work. I know the basics of float level, seats, etc have to be good or they don't work reliably. Second, I want to know where this carb is at. That's why I took the rods out to see what color springs and the # on the rod. So yes, I OBVIOUSLY don't know anything about carbs to do this. You act like I just purchased this Edelbrock and have ALL the documentation on it. I just found the manual pdf online. What is puzzling to me is why are my idle adjustments only a 1/2 turn out and everything I have seen is to start at 1 1/2 and end up +/- 1/4 turn. I figured the previous owner messed with springs/rods and jets but this does not seem to be the case.

This engine was a Lean Burn as my title says but previous owner deleted it. Nobody here has addressed that fact yet. This engine is designed to run lean. It also puzzles me why Edelbrock does not have a chart as to what carb would be a good replacement for the TQ or for the 400 in general. Also, from what I have been reading the TQ 9077s is an 850 cfm and this Edelbrock is only 650 cfm. Why?

So when I have exhausted all my options and want to reek of gasoline, I will pull the carb and take it apart which is one thing I dread. If I ruin the top gasket, it is $58.

Third, I am not a big fan of taking apart carbs on the car. My dad was a seasoned gearhead. He was working on the carb on the engine and screw or some small part, i believe a metal ball, slipped out of his hand and went in the manifold. He was pretty much screwed at that point. A 1/2 hour job turned into a a couple days dismantling the engine to find the small part.

 

[Runcharger]

I don't think he was rude. No one on the internet can pull the jets out to check size and make sure all the carb adjustments are correct for you.
The carb you have will work well on your application, however no one can tell you what it might need unless there is a baseline established first. Lots of good advice here.

 

[Diesel01]

I don't think he was rude. No one on the internet can pull the jets out to check size and make sure all the carb adjustments are correct for you.
The carb you have will work well on your application, however no one can tell you what it might need unless there is a baseline established first. Lots of good advice here.

That is just silly to say. This shouldn't be that hard. I have a stock 1977 Cordoba with a 400/6.6L that somebody removed the TQ and and LEAN BURN then installed an Edelbrock AVS2 1906 replacement. So you are telling me, nobody not even Edelbrock can tell me what model and what jets to put in it? I have to guess??? I just want to know if this is sized correctly and going from a stock TQ of 800-850 CMF to an Edelbrock 650 CFM doesn't seem sized correctly.

Also, nobody has even addressed the Lean Burn delete. I know that requires a distributor replacement and some do it with points. I haven't even looked at the distributor. I hope they didn't do that.

So what number = a stock lean burn carburetor ?

 

[66fs]

That is just silly to say. This shouldn't be that hard. I have a stock 1977 Cordoba with a 400/6.6L that somebody removed the TQ and and LEAN BURN then installed an Edelbrock AVS2 1906 replacement. So you are telling me, nobody not even Edelbrock can tell me what model and what jets to put in it? I have to guess??? I just want to know if this is sized correctly and going from a stock TQ of 800-850 CMF to an Edelbrock 650 CFM doesn't seem sized correctly.

Also, nobody has even addressed the Lean Burn delete. I know that requires a distributor replacement and some do it with points. I haven't even looked at the distributor. I hope they didn't do that.

View attachment 1616474
So what number = a stock lean burn carburetor ?

Lean burn delete is no big deal. All you need is a standard carb and distributor. Sadly you need a base line on your carb. I'd pull it check float settings, check for dirt, and check and record jet sizes. Reinstall with new external fuel filter.

 

[Geoff 2]

Diesel,
I wasn't rude. If you know how carbs work, you wouldn't be on this site asking basic questions about carb operation.....

 

[Diesel01]

Diesel,
I wasn't rude. If you know how carbs work, you wouldn't be on this site asking basic questions about carb operation.....

I wasn't asking basics. I am asking if this is metered correctly and the correct carb. Going from an 800-850CFM to a 650 CFM is not correct. Also, I wanted to know why my idle mix screws are only 1/2 out when they say to start at 1.5 and end up +/- 1/4.

If I don't know anything about carbs, why would I be researching what m rods, springs and jets are in it. I didn't install this carb I am picking up someone else's work. If the floats were sticking, I would be getting gas spurting out the airholes in the top. There is one on each side. I am not.

I don't believe this is sized correctly.

You would think that you , since you are an expert on carbs, could tell me if I want an exact replacement for my TQ Lean Burn it would be this Edelbrock using say a #16 or #18 calibration kit. That is the details I want to know. That is a basic question that so far nobody can answer.

The only adjustment on this carb is the idle mixture and idle speed, electric choke tension and when the butterfly opens on the back barrels.

I believe that it is this idle circuit being dirty or clogged. It caused this on long warm up idle to load with gas and cause it to almost flood out. It was really cold the last time it happen and I let the car run at idle for probably over 5 minutes. The exhaust pipe has been black since I got it and it was smoking black. Since I turned it in a 1/4 turn, the smoking is gone.

I will do as the article posted and even Edelbrock has a video stating to remove the idle screws and blow out with compressed air. I will do that and readjust the idle circuits using my vacuum meter.

I phone Edelbrock twice today never getting anyone for 45 minutes each. Both times it said you are next in line. I wanted to ask them my specific questions.

 

[Don Frelier]

There is nothing wrong with the carb size selection.

 

[Geoff 2]

^^^^^.
Diesel,
Carbs come factory equipped 2 bbls, 6 bbls, 4bbls, so air flow varies. Although Chrys didn't use a 2bbl on the 440, Pontiac used one on their 455.....& some had 850 QJs.

I gave you my reasons earlier in the thread why I don't think a swap to a TQ would be a good idea at this stage
As for the number of turns out the idle mixture screws are....it depends on many factors. The number given in a manual is just a guide. If the t/blades are open slightly further at idle on your engine, the mixture screws will likely be less turns out...because more idle fuel is being supplied by the T slot. Reasons for slightly more blade opening could be a larger cam, air leak etc. Just one example of why things can/do vary. Hope this helps.

 

[Diesel01]

I got ahold of Edelbrock today. They said as others on here said that the 1906 is a good fit. They said to fix my issue since i am running 15 lbs of vacuum, to change the orange springs to the plain springs. Since my tailpipe is black and sooty along with smelling gas, they recommended for me to changed the metering rods to a 1454 (73-37) which is a Calibration #6. He said that should clear things up for me.