383/450 Stoker Build for Power, Longevity, and Reliability?

[MikeyM]

Hi all,

Mike from NorCal, here. Not new to Mopars but haven't done the hot rod thing in many years and am just getting back into it. I've read the many posts and the Hot Rod article on the 383/450 stroker (Mopar for the Masses) and from what I've learned, it seems to be the best balance between CID and not too big to cause reliability issues.. if build and driven properly.

Back in the day, I had a SBC in a PU and it lasted for 225k with regular oil changes, nice treatment (of course, the occasional burnout and race), using synthetic oil. Is there any reason to doubt that a 450 stroker could last as long? Or... nearly as long? I'd like to get over 500 hp and over 550 tq from a future build and following the Hot Rod article, using a similar build to the old Muscle Motor 450, it seems like it could be done. But at what cost to longevity? I don't think the crank swing of a 450 is huge, right? It's a little more than a 440 and many of those engines have lasted a long, reasonably, trouble free life. Here in NorCal we have 91 octane max at all the gas stations so I figure the CR would likely want to be at or under 10.0:1, no? Also, once I find the right project / car, I do plan on putting some type of OD in it at some point. Not quite a resto mod, just making it more modern day, so to speak. The wife unit and I really enjoy longish road trips at 70/75 mph and doing it in a Super Bee would be the.... bee's knees . Pun intended. So any advice you could give to help me get a start on planning all this would be super appreciated.

Just as a short back story, we currently have a '73 Westy that we resurrected, quite literally, from the deat and now, it's one of my DDs and we drive it everywhere on long trips etc, and all of that was because of the awesome, helpful and knowledgeable people on the forums. So thank you in advance for all your knowledge and advice.

Thanks very much,
Mikey

 

[Darter6]

Built a 451 back in 2002. Drove it 30,000 miles. Drag raced it,pulled it and installed it in a friends son's car 2007.
Car is a 73 Cuda 4 speed. The boy was 17 at the time. He is still driving the car today. Reliable for sure
We took the Belvedere on 2 Hot Rod Power Tours long hauling and took the Cuda HR Power Touring in 2007.
Both cars had manual OD transmissions. The Belvedere had a Tremic 5 speed and the Cuda a Passion 4 speed OD.

 

[Kern Dog]

By it's nature, an engine with an increased stroke will have greater cylinder bore wear than the same engine with a stock crank. The longer stroke pushes the pistons sideways more during operation. The pistons have shorter skirts so the pistons can "rock" more as the cylinders wear.
Add to it that more power makes it tempting to push it harder, I'd be surprised to see a stroker last the same miles as a standard rebuild.

 

[MikeyM]

Awesome. Good to hear. Thanks.

 

[MikeyM]

Kern Dog, understood and makes complete sense. What do you guys think a safe, sustained RPM for a 450 stroker would be for a fully balanced engine?

 

[furious70]

Are you wanting to keep your 383 block? I would never build a stroker with that small bore personally.

 

[Kern Dog]

The 454 big block Chevy has a bore size barely bigger than a 383:

The 400 block is though of as a better low deck option compared to the 383.
I have a 383 that I rebuilt in 2020 but last year, I stumbled upon a 440 crank kit that was machined down to fit a low deck block. The 440 crank isn't a whole lot bigger than a 383 crank but it does take a 383 to about 431 cubes. On an engine making 1 HP per cube, that is like adding 48 HP while maintaining durability.
It is tempting to me to make this change. For me, all it would cost me is pistons and rings, gaskets and oil. Some prefer the 383/400 blocks because the headers fit a little better and there is slightly more carburetor clearance.
As far as sustained rpms....
Aftermarket pistons are lighter and sometimes stronger so the rpm limits will be higher but the limits may not be in the pistons....instead it is a matter of how well the cylinder heads flow. Most big block heads flow no better than a mild small block Chevy head. Steve Brule humorously refers to big block Mopars as having tractor heads , alluding to the low rpms that tractors operate under.
Personally, My Edelbrock headed 440/495 does pull really strong well over 6000 rpms though it is probably past the peak HP number. I don't stay there though, I'm shifting at that rpm. The only reason you'd stay revving at that number could be in a race application, right? Tractor pull? Bonneville top end timing trials?

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Kern beat me to it!... when it comes to how many miles you can get out of a stroked 383... How many miles would be expected out of a 454 chevy? A 383 mopar has a deck height of 9.98, 454 chevy 9.8. Both engines have 4.25 bore. Better yet start out w a 400, ours is stroked to 542.
A 440 has lots of room for stroking with a 10.725 deck height..our 4.25 stroked 510 had been on the road for 30 years. Unknown miles, but all those years it was shifted at 6000. We took apart this last winter and it looked like we had just assembled it.

 

[496 polara]

Here is a 451 build to show you the potential. Built with quality components it will outlast the miles you ever put on the car with routine maintenance. A smaller cam will change the power but as you can see it is very capable.
Street 451

 

[MikeyM]

Thanks all, this is super good info. My main goal with this likely future engine is simply to have an engine that will sustain highway speeds of between 70 and 80mph sustained. Probably around 25/2700 RPM give or take a couple hundred depending on the final OD ratio (once it's installed)... to some that might seam like a simple feat, and maybe it is, but I just want it to last if I put the power into it. Long road trips at modern highway speed is the goal but having the HP and torque of a 440/454, etc. to get up and go, is as well. And then comes fuel mileage. I've been considering FI for drivability. Not sure what the tank capacity is on a 69 Bee and I realize these engines aren't built for mileage but it would be nice to get 17-18 on the highway if possible with so much torque. I've read posts showing that with the correct final drive ratio it can be done. Just trying to bring our old rides a little into the modern era while still retaining the muscle.

Oh.. and yea.. I was thinking of either keeping the same block or just building a warned 440. But any engine that I build I'd like it to have over 500 hp and 550is in the lower RPM range and it seems that the 450s can do that.

Thanks,
Mikey

 

[furious70]

383 vs 454 dimensions aside, it costs the same money to build something that will run better if you choose a different starting point.
Was just having the same conversation about a 516 headed 361 on fcbo.

 

[Geoff 2]

The 383 Chys already comes with a long rod, which will mitigate to some extent the long rod side loading. I believe it is also the improved oils that is giving longer engine life.

 

[autoxcuda]

You'll be fine with a 451 out of a 383. More miles than you'll ever put on it. I think the basics of that Hot Rod article are fine except the compression ratio is not good for California.

- 9.5 to 9.7 to 1 compression. California 91 octane is not as good as the 93 octane 49-state gas they ran in that article.
-Edelbrock RPM intake
-Cam: 230-240 duration at .050 with 112 to 110 centerline. I would avoid comp cams and call Bullet for a flat tapped hydraulic and pay some more for features that help cam from going flat: Nitrided, etc
-headers
-440 source ported heads or edlebrock ported heads. edlebrock assembled valve springs are better.
-750 carb
-If there is a SCAT balanced rotating assembly that will get you 451-ish I'd buy that. You don't need H-beam Molner rods for this milder type 500 hp build from 451 cu.in.

 

[MikeyM]

Thanks very much for the replies. Cuda, my desire is to have the engine be full roller. I figure that way it would be better for longevity and I could get a little more power out of the cam. Nothing against flat tapping but these days, roller seems to be a good way to go. I currently have 336,000 miles on the engine in my 98 grand Cherokee V8 and it’s still going strong. Says a lot for roller to me

 

[1970Bee]

I like the roller cam stuff, too. But as for reliability in a non OEM application, you are adding complexity and spring pressure, so over time, I’d say at the very least you are adding another service item (springs).
Not a vote for or against. Just something to keep in mind since you seem to be looking for reliability in the six figure (mileage) range.

 

[BSB67]

...My Edelbrock headed 440/495 does pull really strong well over 6000 rpms though it is probably past the peak HP number....... I'm shifting at that rpm. The only reason you'd stay revving at that number could be in a race application, right? Tractor pull? Bonneville top end timing trials?

I agree with everything you said

Remember, shifting at the higher rpm, as you suggest, will generally make the car faster too. How often does that occur? For me, probably every 5 minutes I'm driving.

 

[autoxcuda]

I like the roller cam stuff, too. But as for reliability in a non OEM application, you are adding complexity and spring pressure, so over time, I’d say at the very least you are adding another service item (springs).
Not a vote for or against. Just something to keep in mind since you seem to be looking for reliability in the six figure (mileage) range.

Yea, that's the issue. These motors that were not designed to have roller lifter. So they must use and aftermarket retrofit.

The aftermarket hydraulic rollers have not proven to be durable to anywhere near 336K miles. There's many low mileage failures with them.