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440 six pack set up

Garys1969RR

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I have a 1969 Roadrunner with the 6 pack F/Glass hood. 440 Engine, 4 barrel. I want to convert it to a 440 6 pack. I suppose you would call it a tribute car. So it will be a 1969 440 six pack Roadrunner, although not factory produced. Where would be the best place to buy the parts, and has anyone here done this? Summit Racing has all the parts available for about $2500, including the oval six pack air filter. New Holley carbs, linkage, and Edelbrock intake. The center carb is a 350 CFM, where as the 2 outboard carbs are 325 CFM each. Does this sound like the best way to go? Any thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated. 20150806_133459_resized_2.jpg20150806_133449_resized_2.jpg
 
I converted my 68 GTX to a six pack with the hood, carbs, intake and the whole bit. You won't regret to switch over. I can't really comment on where to buy the parts as I got my stuff off an existing six pack car. My GTX had a mild cam in it and handled those carbs beautifully. I've since built the 440 into a 494 and put in a bunch of goodies - the six pack set up compliments the whole package nicely. Pulling nearly 600 hp on the dyno. I've bought a lot of stuff from Summit over the years and have always been happy with their products and policies.
 
i'd check into those carbs. with those cfm ratings they may be the little mech 2bbls used on summits small block chevy and ford packages. if they don't look like this they're not chrysler carbs.
 

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Yes, check the cfm's. I believe the center carb is 500 cfm & maybe 350 cfm each for the outboards.

Chuck
 
Yes, check the cfm's. I believe the center carb is 500 cfm & maybe 350 cfm each for the outboards.

Chuck
Yea thats what I was thinking, 500 center, 350 CFM on ends.

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Can someone post the list numbers for the center and end carbs?
 
Gentlemen,
The Holley carbs for a six barrel set up (if we are talking about a PLYMOUTH--only Dodge's are six packs) the center carb is rated at 355cfm @ 1.5" pressure drop and the end carbs are rated at 500cfm @ 1.5" pressure drop each for a total of 1355cfm. The pressure drop is measured in inches of water column or during the flow bench measurement it could be represented in mm mercury.
The original carbs were adaptations of the Corvette 427 cubic inch 435 hp which were also vacuum controlled end carbs of similar air flow characteristics at the same 1.5" pressure drop...BUT the GM application have the fuel inlet fittings on the OPPOSITE side of the fuel bowls from the MOPAR application and, of course, have a different throttle linkage connections. In addition, the GM application will use different metering requirements than the MOPAR engines. This will include off idle transition slots lengths, idle air bleed dimensions, main nozzle air bleed dimensions, primary will emulsion tube dimensions, power valve channel restrictions and power valve opening calibration, float settings, fuel inlet valve seat dimensions.....other that those criteria, the carbs are the "same"...but different!!
The replacement carbs offered by several suppliers will work very well but may need to be re-jetted for the application/engine. The center carb is generally supplied with a nozzle for the evaporative emission system, which was standard (50 states) for 1971. They tend to run a little "leaner" due to increasing emission requirements. The end carbs are of the "4160" designation (metering plates in lieu of jets) and only the center carb is of the "4150" design with a separate metering block with removable jets.
PM if you want to discuss further....the published Holley books are a great source of info for tuning...
Cheers,
RJ Renton
 
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The part nos from Summit are: HLY 041441 center, and HLY 043651 for the 2 outboard carbs.

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Those part nos come up as 350 CFM on the center carb, and 500 CFM on the end carbs. And they are vacummn actuated, guess these are the right ones.
 
OK, so here is what I would do...
Buy a used 6 pack setup. you can get them for $1500 (cast iron intake) $1100 (aluminum intake), there are a couple in my neck of the woods right now...

Then get that on its way to Promax, he will rebuild them and add a new rear bottom plate, new jet plates, and dyno test them for under $1000, much less if you dont want them coated...

Next buy a repopped air cleaner setup for $400 and the fuel lines and linkage will be around $300...
I would also make sure to add the 8-9psi pump, carter pump is like $110ish...

If you get a deal on an aluminum intake and carbs, I have seen them as low as $900, then get promax to just rebuild and work his magic for $700 with the rear plate and jet plates, you may be able to keep it under $2500, BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT...

I wouldn't even bother with new carbs, I would rather have old ones that Promax has worked, once he goes through them they will be new again and all dyno tuned, just bolt them on, hookem', and turn the key... Plus WAY better with real jets and his baseplate on your rear outboard...


Good luck
 
Gentlemen,
The Holley carbs for a six barrel set up (if we are talking about a PLYMOUTH--only Dodge's are six packs) the center carb is rated at 355cfm @ 1.5" pressure drop and the end carbs are rated at 500cfm @ 1.5" pressure drop each for a total of 1355cfm. The pressure drop is measured in inches of water column or during the flow bench measurement it could be represented in mm mercury.
The original carbs were adaptations of the Corvette 427 cubic inch 435 hp which were also vacuum controlled end carbs of similar air flow characteristics at the same 1.5" pressure drop...BUT the GM application have the fuel inlet fittings on the OPPOSITE side of the fuel bowls from the MOPAR application and, of course, have a different throttle linkage connections. In addition, the GM application will use different metering requirements than the MOPAR engines. This will include off idle transition slots lengths, idle air bleed dimensions, main nozzle air bleed dimensions, primary will emulsion tube dimensions, power valve channel restrictions and power valve opening calibration, float settings, fuel inlet valve seat dimensions.....other that those criteria, the carbs are the "same"...but different!!
The replacement carbs offered by several suppliers will work very well but may need to be re-jetted for the application/engine. The center carb is generally supplied with a nozzle for the evaporative emission system, which was standard (50 states) for 1971. They tend to run a little "leaner" due to increasing emission requirements. The end carbs are of the "4160" designation (metering plates in lieu of jets) and only the center carb is of the "4150" design with a separate metering block with removable jets.
PM if you want to discuss further....the published Holley books are a great source of info for tuning...
Cheers,
RJ Renton
the new aftermarket carbs are rated at 3" of pressure drop, hence the 1350cfm. the original carbs were rated at 1030cfm at 1.5", the same as all 4bbls. holley just did a marketing ploy with the 3" rating and got by with it. the corvette carbs are 950cfm at 1.5". the corvette center carb is the same size as the mopar but the end carbs have 1 3/8" venturii vs the mopar 1 9/16" venturii. the corvette carbs don't have any smog stuff built into them like the mopars. at one time or another i've played with them all, corvette, mopar and aftermarket mechanicals.
 
OK, so here is what I would do...
Buy a used 6 pack setup. you can get them for $1500 (cast iron intake) $1100 (aluminum intake), there are a couple in my neck of the woods right now...

Then get that on its way to Promax, he will rebuild them and add a new rear bottom plate, new jet plates, and dyno test them for under $1000, much less if you dont want them coated...

Next buy a repopped air cleaner setup for $400 and the fuel lines and linkage will be around $300...
I would also make sure to add the 8-9psi pump, carter pump is like $110ish...

If you get a deal on an aluminum intake and carbs, I have seen them as low as $900, then get promax to just rebuild and work his magic for $700 with the rear plate and jet plates, you may be able to keep it under $2500, BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT...

I wouldn't even bother with new carbs, I would rather have old ones that Promax has worked, once he goes through them they will be new again and all dyno tuned, just bolt them on, hookem', and turn the key... Plus WAY better with real jets and his baseplate on your rear outboard...


Good luck


Who or where is Promax???
 
Promax is in indianapolis. i don't understand why anyone needs Promax for a 6-pak.
 
Promaxcarbs.com I'll take a set of used ones worked by him over a brand new set any day of the week. http://promaxcarbs.bizland.com/id1.html

Promax is in indianapolis. i don't understand why anyone needs Promax for a 6-pak.

a few reasons
1-his restored carbs are awesome, coated, rebuilt, tuned, their work is about the best I have ever seen, since I have restored/built 11 cars in the last handful of years, I have seen a lot of work from outside vendors, he has yet to let me down.

2-Price, very fair

3- rear baseplate is awesome, saves a lot of bs..

4- his jet plates make tuning and engine changes much easier, and I have noticed the run better.

The 340-6 in the challenger spun a bearing, so we pulled the motor to do the work, sent out the crank, put new bearings in it, and threw it on the dyno. The carbs were running rich, these were brand new. Probably what caused the spun bearing...

Anyway they tried to tune the carbs back and forth, with the af meter on the dyno, even brought in a "6 pack specialist", at the end of the day the 6 pack whisperer said to send them to promax... So instead of sending brand new carbs to be rebuilt, we sent a used original set, they came back dyno tuned and ready.
Sadly the motor couldnt stay on the dyno waiting to get the carbs back so it got thrown back in the car with a 4bbl that they did tune on the dyno..
6 pack came home, and got bolted on. NIGHT AND DAY, it made me a believer, bolted them on and turned the key, got it started, retimed it a bit and didnt have to touch the carbs at all!!! Pulled out of the garage out to the street and stomped on it, the car blew sideways and laid tire all the way down the street. I was shocked, I simply never had the luxury of just bolting on a carb and going down the road, ESPECIALLY a 6 pack...

Having had to play with a few 6 packs I am sick of it, my time is worth too much to spend a day tuning carbs and risk spinning bearings and hurting an $8K engine...

I often change cams and motors between cars, for instance I had a 454 ss with a high dollar big block in, when I sold the car the gentleman just wanted the car running, and preferred a much lower hp motor with better street manners. SO I swapped in a different motor for him, or when I swapped my 39 to FI, I then used the carb setup on my buddies 55 F100... So the 6 packs may need to be tuned for something else in the future, maybe a different cam maybe a different motor all together, having jets and the rear plate makes that much easier...

NOW if you have the know how to rebuild 6 packs and dont mind doing it, sure go for it, but them things are tight in there, they suck just to bolt on and setup the linkage and fuel lines. I don't like messing with carbs. I figure it this way.
I can get a rebuilt dyno tuned carb for $400 sent to my door, bolt it on a drive the car, thats less time leaning over my painted fenders for the same of not less than I would spend on a new carb, which I don't know why but suck. I have gotten edelbrocks out of the box that leak, suck air, etc. Barry grant with the wrong parts installed in it, and Holley has also screwed me a time or two over the years too...

Well that is my story, I like promax, nice guys, good work, fair prices and they do what I dont want to do better than I can do it if I did...


BTW- its costs about the same, figure a new set is $1600, a used original set that needs rebuild can be found for $600ish then depending on how far you go you can get them done for $600-800 you are ahead of the game...
 
i live in the indy area. from people i've talked to who have used Promax for 6-paks the reviews are a little ambiguous, in my opinion. i do all my own carb work and have for decades. solving 6-pak problems aren't a big enough issue in my opinion to need a carb service or a lot of extra parts.
 
i live in the indy area. from people i've talked to who have used Promax for 6-paks the reviews are a little ambiguous, in my opinion. i do all my own carb work and have for decades. solving 6-pak problems aren't a big enough issue in my opinion to need a carb service or a lot of extra parts.

"ambiguous" as in vague and obscure? Please explain, I can tell you they did 2 I have used and have 2 of mine right now (should be shipped today actually)... And I have nothing but good things to say about them, have you used their services or been to their shop?

I understand you built and maintain your 6 packs by yourself, I know I could do it too, I just hate ******* with carbs, its one of the things that I like to leave up to someone who does it all day, just like engine, tranny, and rear end building, I just don't do it all the time, so I leave it to the pros, since them are the items that get you stuck on the side of the road. Now, body work, interior resto, driveline installation, suspension, brakes, and assembly are all things that are right in front of me, and less likely to make me have to call for a lift home.
Now if its a flip car with a basic 4bbl, sure Ill rebuild a carb here and there, but thats only because I don't want to wait for a carb or spend the extra money when I can rip it apart, drop it in the paint gallon and slap it back together in an hour... ALTHOUGH even with that I am sick of touching and breathing the chemicals, I use the gallon kit from napa, that **** can NOT be good for you, it strips the gold off a holley in 5 seconds flat, and if you get a wiff by accident don't stand up fast because you will pass out, lol...

ANYWAY, do you have a not so "vague" experience with them boys? I will ask them about it, because I can tell they like having a good reputation, there are 2 sides to every story...
The gentleman that turned me onto them had a race motor built by them and I can attest to that motor being ******* INSANE, especially for the money, motor has stayed together long than he normally keeps them, and still going strong...

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I just tried to find some negative reviews and came acroos this where promax is mentioned by hotrod..
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0801-mopar-six-pack-tuning/
I found 1 bad review on yp and it looks like a guy has a 2 year old carb and was mad they wouldn't fix it? I know jon backfired teh **** out of a holley he got from them that he didnt opt for a power valve protector and they sent him another power valve for free, that carb was almost a year old at the time...
 
"ambiguous"-mixed reviews. seems like you have invested in them so i understand your feelings. i'll put my money elsewhere.
 
It looks as though the Pro Max rear baseplate has angled idle screws so you dont have to remove the carb to adjust the idle screws. The center carb has idle screws on the side, and the front ones are easily accessed from the front. I am thinking about getting some used carbs and sending them to Pro Max for re building. Any one here have a set for sale?

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Also Pro Max sells the modified rear base plate for those who want to install one on their rear carb. Plus the jet plates in the outboard carbs are made to receive standard Holley jets for ease of tuning.
 
"ambiguous"-mixed reviews. seems like you have invested in them so i understand your feelings. i'll put my money elsewhere.

not that I am invested in them, I know they saved me a few times and if they can save someone else or make something work better easier, then I am all for it, I struggle to find time to work on my projects so when I stumble upon someone who is helpful, fair prices, and does good work, I tell the world, lol... So by all means, like I said if you can do the work and enjoy it more than the cost of a service, do it, you would be crazy not to... I won't recommend many companies, Promax is one on my list, always fair and always good work equals me always happy and in this hobby that is RARE...

Like I said I would love to hear about the bad as well, I have no problem bringing it up with them, and I myself would like to know if there was problems before I further push their services to poeple in need. BUT if its just some guy that knows a guy that bought a carb and it had the wrong color anno on it, or something stupid, then I wont give it a second thought, on the other hand if its something serious like they took a set of carbs and never gave them back or ran away with the guys cc info, or sent a set of carbs full of mouse ****, took the money and ran, etc I would like to know...

I was using a company to rebuild brake boosters a while back (they are out of business now) and th first 3 came perfect, fast, good price awesome guy to deal with always answered the phone, well I sent a t-bird master and he took my money and never sent it back, knew he was going under and it was a hard master to find for a rare car. That sucked I never got it back.. Also got burnt by a chome guy in TN, sent him a pair of original bumpers for a friends 1950 caddy, he blasted holes through them shoddy fixes, and the chrome came flyng off with in 2 months, plus they looked like hell, and again a hard to find set of bumpers, and NOT cheap, ruined for no reason, they had NO rust when we sent them.. COME to find out he switcheroo'd us, gave us junk bumpers and had ours for sale!!!! We got the district attorneys office involved and they got them back but what a head ache that was...

Anyway thats what these forums are for, if you have some real stories about the company I for one would love to hear them, I just sent him $1700, it would be a service for us all, if you just wanted to mention you do them yourself and would not sped or waste the money having someone else do them, then that is fine too. But since I have been burnt a few times, I take all feedback seriously, I am sending thousands in parts and thousands in cash to these guys, if there is something to look out for I wouldn't mind a heads up... thanks
 
i like the promax fuel lines. not sure what the big deal is about the rear baseplate. once you get the idle set your done. not something that necessitates the money vs the few minutes it takes to pop the rear carb on and off to get them set. with the braided line i just swing the carb back to adjust them. don't even have to break the fuel fittings. the braided line is very handy, when your jetting the carbs or for any maint, i hate the factory double flare stuff, but then again thats just me.

 
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